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<DIV>In a message dated 2/3/2013 12:50:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kchisholm@ca.inter.net writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Stuart</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au
href="mailto:kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au">stuart mather</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">Kevin C</A> ; <A
title=mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification]
mycoremediation of tarry water</DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Kevin C <<A
title=mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> stuart mather <<A
title=mailto:kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au
href="mailto:kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au">kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au</A>>;
Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <<A
title=mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, 2 February
2013 2:50 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water<BR></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>Kevin
wrote:<BR> ....While I have not seen a report showing that blackwater
disposal is harmful to the environment, I have not seen one that says it is
not harmful either. However, a competent Gasifier Operator sent me pictures
of his blackwater dump site a few years after he stopped dumping blackwater
there, and the plants growing there seemed just as vigorous and healthy as
nearby plants outside teh dump zone.<BR>> <BR>> Best
wishes,<BR>> <BR>> Kevin<BR> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57>That's intriguing Kevin,</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57>So I wonder why there seems to be a
general consensus that dumping tarry water in a pond amounts to
environmental vandalism. Not saying your gasifier correspondent was making
it up. But you would think the President of Myanmar would have better things
to do than declare black water gasification leach ponds toxic sites
Military juntas aren't well known for their environmental awareness.
So why the concern about tar ponds people?</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57>Stuart.</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial># A "Tar Pond" or
"Blackwater Disposal Pond" is a highly concentrated "disposal situation".
Too much of anything is almost certain to be a problem. One cannot grow
carrots or wheat in a pond used to dispose of distilled water, and ethanol
alcohol is a poison when taken in excess quantities at high concentrations,
as an extreme examples. The issues here are one of both toxicity and
concentration. A "Gasifier Tarpond" could indeed become qualified as a
'superfund site." However, the same chemicals, if spread in dilute form over
say 1, or 10, or 100 square miles may present no significant hazard, and may
even yiled a net benefit. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial># I would say
intuitively that there is a combination of "toxicity and concentration"
above which, gasifire tar disposal is "bad", and that there are "toxicity
and concentration" combinations below which gasifier tars are not hazardous,
and may even be beneficial. I don't know all the compounds in gasifier
tars, and the concentrations below which they can be "generally considered
as safe." In my opinion, nobody can responsibly say for certain that
"gasifier tars are toxic" unless one specifies both the components and
concentration. Neither can anyone say for certain that "gasifier
tars are safe" unless one has a rational data base to support the statement.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial># The process of
smoking fish, meat, and other food products can be looked on as a way to
dispose of "gasifier tars." :-) The fact that such "smoke tars" preserve
foods proves that such tars are toxic to some life-forms. Some studies
suggest that smoked foods are bad, while others suggest that while there may
be some "cancer deaths" as a result of eating such smoked foods, the
benefits from reducing deaths from pathogenic organisms that would otherwise
be present greatly exceed the "smoking detriments."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial># "The way to eliminate
the gasifier tar problem is to eliminate tar formation in the first place."
This is not that difficult with properly designed and operated gasifiers.
This can be done, as is evidenced by the many gasifiers in operation fueling
IC engines, with no tar problems. Stratified downdraft gasifiers, and
updraft gasifiers are well known as "tarry gas producers." In some
applications, such gasifier systems can be very appropriate, because of
their generally lower capital cost, and their ability to handle a
wider range of fuel sizing and moisture content. Such gases can often
be burned directly, without need for tar removal. TLUD stoves, which are
basically "an updraft gasifier with a build-in burner to destroy the tars"
are an excellent example of a gasification system where tarry gas is
not a problem. If one wants to pipe such gas to a burner at a distance
from the gasifier, then tar build-up in piping is likely to be a problem.
Water quenching of such gas will remove many of the tars, ash and char
that cause pipes to plug. Then one has the problem and cost of dealing with
the "blackwater." If the problem, and cost of dealing with it are big
enough, then it may be better to employ a different gasifier, and different
fuel preparation techniques, to produce a gas with an acceptable tar
level. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial>Best
wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=yui_3_7_2_29_1359847868608_57><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Gasification
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