<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Formateret HTML Tegn";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Markeringsbobletekst Tegn";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.FormateretHTMLTegn
{mso-style-name:"Formateret HTML Tegn";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Formateret HTML";
font-family:Consolas;
mso-fareast-language:DA;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.MarkeringsbobletekstTegn
{mso-style-name:"Markeringsbobletekst Tegn";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:Markeringsbobletekst;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:DA;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:3.0cm 2.0cm 3.0cm 2.0cm;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="DA" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ken
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I fully agree from a thermodynamical point of view – but it is very difficult to design a reliablt working small scale gasification system
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thomas
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Fra:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]
<b>På vegne af </b>Ken Boak<br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 1. december 2013 17:42<br>
<b>Til:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<br>
<b>Emne:</b> Re: [Gasification] Small steam systems plus gasifiers for electricity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Forget small scale steam for electric power generation. Very low overall conversion efficiency and a full-time control problem to prevent potential steam explosions, make this a technology cul-de-sac not worth exploring. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The efficiency of a good downdraft gasifier and internal combustion engine will produce four times as much electricity as any steam engine could - for the same quantity of wood fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've recently been doing test runs on an APL 20kW Power Pallet, and saw 49.5kWh of electricity produced in 2.75 hours from a standard 200 litre (55 US gal) oil drum of woodchip fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">regards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ken<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1 December 2013 16:29, <<a href="mailto:sabbadess@aol.com" target="_blank">sabbadess@aol.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I actually built a prototype that did this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIFTBITYjb0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIFTBITYjb0</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I found that small steam at the residential scale is just a bad idea. The first major problem is wet layup seizing all the parts together. Then there are the thermal lags of the
gasifier and boiler for a step change in electrical load. Then there is the corrosion/explosion hazard.....It just kept getting worse even though it sounded great in theory. I am FAR happier with my gasifier/engine combo.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Stephen Abbadessa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <<a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Sent: Sun, Dec 1, 2013 11:21 am<br>
Subject: [Gasification] Small steam systems plus gasifiers for electricity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Dear Tom, Thomas and all,<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On 11/30/2013 5:44 PM, Thomas Koch wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span style="color:black">Tom <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">.....<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">I can only agree that for small systems steam systems looks as the most reliable way to produce electricity<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">This "low tech" approach appeals to me (and maybe to some others) because the Up Draft gasifiers are great for making clean heat, of which much gets wasted in cases
such as people making char and biochar. <br>
<br>
I acknowledge that the <u>small steam systems for electricity</u> do not require gasification technologies, and therefore this topic should soon be off of the Gasification Listserv. But for the moment, who are the readers who have interest in taking this
discussion further? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style="color:black">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black">Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black"><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black">for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre><tt><span style="color:black"><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gasification mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>