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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><big>Anand, thanks for your
comments. I answer them in the text below.<br>
</big><br>
On 10/12/2013 12:13 PM, Anand Karve wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACPy7Sdad0=suKezKqMcVZP4Q-1ATB3bQi5L+y0W3rOwb8UouQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Dear David,</div>
<div>rock dust is certainly a good additive to soil, but the
ordinary soil in our fields is itself derived from the rocks
underneath the soil layer and therefore soil contains more or
less the same minerals that the rock contains. <b> </b><big><b>Anand</b><b>
that's not quite correct and to explain what I mean would
require quite a deal of space. Soil is one commiodity
about which it is impossible to make blanket statements.</b>
</big>Secondly, you have quoted that according to John D.
Hamaker the microbes produced enzymes which dissolved the
minerals in the rock dust. <big><b>That's not correct
either. I didn't credit JDH with that statement, it is a
biological fac</b><b>t</b></big><b>.</b> That is true in
the case of a few minerals which are in the form of calcium
salts. <big> </big> But water is a universal solvent and all
minerals are soluble in water to a small extent. <big><b>Anand,
any mineral is soluble in water provided it is in a water
soluble form.</b><b> <big> </big></b><b><small><big>In
basalt - or any rock form - it is not water soluble and
you rely entirely on enzymes.</big> </small></b> </big>They
are taken up by the microbes directly, because the microbes
absorb them through their entire cell surface, which is a more
efficient manner of absorption than the plants,<big> </big>which
absorb minerals only through their root hairs. <b><big>I'd
like to read more of this - can you give me a credible
reference please ? </big></b> The soil solution represents
a saturated solution of the minerals. Therefore, any mineral
molecule that is removed from the solution by either plants or
microbes, gets replaced immediately from the pool of undissolved
minerals in the soil. This property is called dynamic
equilibrium. A 1 meter thick layer of soil has enough
minerals to allow you to conduct agriculture for about 25000
years. <b><big>Not in Australia and many other countries !</big></b><b>
</b><b><big>"Soils ain't soils !". Australia, for
example, missed the last Ice Age and a 1 metre thick slice
of our soil won't keep your belly full for more than a
couple of birthdays. Australian soils are deficient in
most minerals and were almost entirely leached of P.
Australian topsoil averages around 12mm thick. For this
reason our agricultural productivity leapt ahead once we
accessed the P in guano from Christmas Island and then from
Nauru. Then we set up superphosphate manufacturing and
the rest in history. Australia is not unique.</big></b><b>
</b><b><big>But some areas here are quite mineral rich and you
can add rock dust as heavy and as aften as you like and get
no result, because it doesn't need minerals. But most
other areas do need it and you differentiate through soil
analysis.</big></b> <big><b> Bu</b><b>t, all our soil and
soils of the world desperately need more Organic Matter.</b></big> <b>
<big>Our national average is under 1%, where 5% is a desired
minimum. <br>
</big></b></div>
</blockquote>
<big><b> For general interest</b></big><b><big> have a look at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/CaringForTrees/Remineralisation3-94.htm">http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/CaringForTrees/Remineralisation3-94.htm</a>
Got to go ! DJM.<br>
</big></b><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACPy7Sdad0=suKezKqMcVZP4Q-1ATB3bQi5L+y0W3rOwb8UouQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Yours A.D.Karve<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACPy7Sdad0=suKezKqMcVZP4Q-1ATB3bQi5L+y0W3rOwb8UouQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 9:45 AM, David
Murphy <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:djfmurphy@dodo.com.au" target="_blank">djfmurphy@dodo.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Joe, you might find it of interest to look up John D.
Hamaker on the net. He was an American Mechanical
Engineer who turned his mind (and subsequently devoted his
life) to improving soil by the addition of rock dust.
He saw global warming as a precursor to the next ice age.
He saw an ice age as essential refurbishment of the
earth's resources. His argument has a lot of good
solid logioc to it and it's worth adding to your store of
knowledge on the general topic. If he's proven right,
then we're in a lot of trouble ! If you want to study
it further I have a DVD I made from a tape he produced I
could let you have.<br>
<br>
Rock dust is a storehouse of minerals, all of which are
essential to growth. First to plants and then to the
animals which eat them - including us humans. Rock dust
is insoluble to water but not to enzymes which are
produced by soil benevolent bacteria - bacteria which are
present in soil with good OM and in compost. Many
readers of this string will be aware of it's benefits when
used as fertiliser.<br>
<br>
Seeking to remedy climate change purported to be caused by
anthropomorphic global warming is an extraordinarily
complex question. And seeking to make a contribution by
sequestering carbon as charcoal is in itself another
complex range of issues. The charcoal must be first
ligneos carbon - wood - and it is probably almost as good
to lock up some of that carbon in timber for building
houses or making furniture.<br>
<br>
I'd promote the first step by making the sequestration of
the carbon as part of a broader program of building
building soil organic matter OM. This includes animate
carbon as well as vegetative. At least get it up to 5%
to plough depth, say 10 inches (250mm) as a minimum,
aiming at 20%. That in itself locks away a lot of
carbon, but of a different nature, in that it's available
to contribute to plant growth, growth without the need for
chemical or artificial fertilisers. <br>
<br>
Every 1% increase in soil OM (world wide) would be a
lockup of around 30 billion tonnes of carbon in a world
which generates now (probably) 20 million tonnes
annually. Just for the record, the biggest emitter of
CO2, bigger than every other agency combined - every
factory, airplane, car truck tractor etc and so on - is
the soil of the earth as it respires. So, the more land
we put down under crop to feed the increasing billions,
the more CO2 we produce and put into the atmosphere. <br>
<br>
So, it's a race against a proven runner - so called mother
Nature - and she's a proven stayer.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, some of the wise owls are now saying
it's not CO2 at all, but PCB's causing the damage. Maybe
they're right - who knows <u>for sure ?</u> Nobody I'm
aware of despite what they say. It's all conjecture,
some of it soundly based, but still conjecture relying on
historical info compiled over a geological blink.<br>
<br>
Using charcoal and zeolite together is a bit like wearing
belt & braces with self-supporting trousers. It
certainly works !<br>
<br>
The easy and less costly way is to just get the OM into
the soil and plant stuff to grow and suck up all the CO2
and N.<br>
<br>
But whatever you do, don't stop the good work.<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
David Murphy.</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 08/12/2013 12:33 PM, Joe Barnas wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">DAVID,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thankyou for the insightful overview of biochar
and comparative functionality of Zeolite, of which
I was not familiar. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However one thing I am focused on is how to
address catastrophic global climate change and for
that having billions of gardeners sequestering
carbon, while building healthy soil and hence
healthy food is not something that Zeolite can
provide. It is another tool in growing food, yes,
but let's not lose sight of the long term benefit
of promoting biochar. I might even try mixing
some with biochar just to gain the N adsorption
benefits.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:00
PM, David Murphy <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:djfmurphy@dodo.com.au"
target="_blank">djfmurphy@dodo.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px
solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br>
<font face="Verdana">Greetings
Biochar/Gasifier people !</font><br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Everybody & his
dog seems to have something to say about
charcoal/biochar/biochar-compost mix and
so on.<span> Well, h</span>ere’s
another dog to bark his piece ! <br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Biochar is often
seen as the great agricultural panacea,
but </big><big><u>it is not</u></big><big>.</big><big><span>
</span></big><big>Biochar is a name given
to plain ordinary charcoal to indicate
that it is destined for use in soil
improvement, but basically it is still
plain ordinary charcoal, just crushed into
smaller particles. </big><big><span> </span></big><big>In
some circumstances it is a very beneficial
tool but it is not magical as some
proponents seem to think. Just remember,
all charcoal has a bio-origin - wood. <br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>In some Ag. trials
in </big><big>Australia</big><big> it
significantly improved crop volume (treble
in one case) but in other instances,
nothing worth writing home about.</big><big><span>
</span></big><big>It depends on what the
soil is like to start with. <br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Charcoal is stable.</big><big><span>
</span></big><big>That means it does not
take part in any composting system (which
is one primarily of bacterial digestion)
and it is indigestible so that when
offered as a dietary supplement (in
poultry food for example) it passes
through the digestive system physically
unchanged but will adsorb a high
proportion of the gases and some toxins
produced in the process of digestion,
because that is what charcoal does. For
this reason, it's adsorption capability,
poultry will generally do better on a
little charcoal. <br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Quite a few pages
could be filled on the beneficial services
provided by charcoal as it travels through
the digestive system, but it does it as
charcoal only and as nothing else. By
all means use a little in the feed, you
can only benefit. <br>
</big><br>
<big>The only physical way to change the
nature of charcoal is to burn it. That
is why it lasts in soil (or wherever it
is) for thousands of years.</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>It has an incredibly
high surface area of 360 m</big><big><sup>2
</sup></big><big>(varies) and is a mass of
minute tunnels which in turn means a very
high volume and gases become trapped in
these tunnels.</big><big><span> </span></big><big>It
does not </big><big><u>ab</u></big><big>sorb,
it </big><big><u>ad</u></big><big>sorbs
and traps only.</big><big><span> </span></big><big>The
difference between absorb and adsorb is
the same as the difference in liquids of
suspension and solution.</big><big><span>
</span></big><big>Clay particles will be
in suspension, sugar and salt go into
solution. <br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Charcoal is useful
in an aerobic composting system because
again of the entrapment of air in the
tunnels.</big><big><span> </span></big><big>A
composting system goes well if there is
enough oxygen bearing air available to the
bacteria which are a significant part of
the system.</big><big><span> </span></big><big><span> </span></big><big>The
more air, the higher the population of
bacteria (other factors being OK). </big><big><span> </span></big><big><span> </span></big><big>The
charcoal itself is inoperative, and
doesn’t change, nor is it a catalyst, it
simply provides a service. It will only
provide a haven for soil benevolent
bacteria if there is something trapped in
the tunnels which the bacteria can eat. <br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Charcoal is a good
adsorber of gas and liquid simply because
that is what it does.</big><big><span> </span></big><big>Zeolite
on the other hand, can have an even higher
surface are per gram and has a propensity
to entrap gases, most particularly
nitrogen in it’s various forms – as gas –
ammonium for example – and in liquids as a
salt of NO</big><big><sub>3 </sub></big><big>.</big><big><span>
</span></big><big>It actually draws them
in (like a magnet attracts ferric objects)
where charcoal just takes it as it
comes. It is easy to see also why
charcoal is so effective as a filter, but
if you have a solution rich in nitrogen,
run it through Zeolite and the N will be
removed. </big><big>Add some to the
litter in poultry grower sheds, there will
be fewer mortalities because the ammonia
which sometimes will asphixiate small
birds will be absorbed. Zeolite will
take N out of solution, charcoal will
not. There's 40 natural forms of
Zeolite and more than another 150 can be
synthesised, so choose carefully for the
one most appropriate to your problem.
Zeolite can perform an amazing range of
actions. Once used and applied as
fertiliser, Zeolite subsequently will
release the N slowly and remain in the
soil as a balancer of N. Too much, it
will take it in (so that the soil pH is
not lowered) and release it as required.<br>
</big></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big>Charcoal’s great
stuff though, it's easy to make and holds
answers to a lot of problems - but not all
!</big></p>
<span><font color="#888888"><big>David Murphy.</big>
</font></span></div>
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-- <br>
<span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Joe Barnas</font></span>
<div><span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Portland,
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***<br>
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Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
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