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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">"<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">char-philia" that's what
drove me away from biochar ! ! I can see some things never
change.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
</span><br>
<br>
On 12/23/2013 06:36 PM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:002801cf0037$be4be580$3ae3b080$@trmiles.com"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
didn’t mean anything quite so personal. :-/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Most
of the biochar research has focused on pyrolitic char and
not on combustion or gasification char. There is a clear
bias toward pyrolysis, or low temperature char. Can anyone
really say this is the way that the Amazonians, or anyone
else, created the charcoal that we find in the terra preta
soils? Or was it smoldering combustion, staged combustion (a
la Alex English), or a combination of pyrolysis,
gasification and combustion? I know that I have had a lot of
bad slash and straw burns that have left a lot more char on
the ground than ash. Are there “signatures” in the terra
preta char that point specifically to pyrolysis,
gasification or combustion? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
see biochar production growing in stages. For the time being
a large quantity of char that is sold as Biochar is actually
char from gasification. As biochar markets grow we might
expect to find more pyrolytic char made “for purpose” but
now we have some pyrolitic char and byproducts of
gasification (including TLUDs) and combustion. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
“high temperature” gasifier char performs very well and in
some applications better than pyrolytic char. Several
studies (and some commercial producers) have found that
conditioning the char through partially oxidation (to higher
temperature) enhances nutrient retention. These products are
for improving soil fertility , not necessarily to replace
activated carbon. So why not consider CO2 gasification as a
possible process step? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One
major producer of char in California uses a downdraft
gasifier. In a downdraft gasifier wood devolatilizes at or
above the oxidation zone. Volatile carbon is oxidized by the
air injected from nozzles to make CO2. The hot CO2 reacts
with the char to form CO and H2. This occurs in the
“reduction zone”. The reduction zone is often shown as a
deep bed of carbon but in fact it is usually only a couple
of inches thick. Large chips reduce to powdered char in less
than 2 inches where gas temperatures are 800-900C. The
resultant producer gas is a mixture of this CO from reducing
char and the devolatilized gas. Taking CO2 and reacting it
with charcoal at 800-900C as Purdue has done is not a lot
different so the qualities of the char should be similar. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think we need to explore all avenues of producing char and
energy <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Slow
pyrolysis – 25%-30% char; 30% oil+gas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fast
pyrolysis – 15% char; 60% oil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Gasification
– 5%-25% char; 75%-95% energy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Combustion
– 1-5% char; 95% heat<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronal W. Larson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2013 2:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Biochar; Tom Miles<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott;
Gasification-Request<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [biochar] Pine char gasification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Tom etal:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 1. I’m not sure I want to
accept the “philia” part of this message (“philia”
goes with “abnormal” and pedophilia at one google
site). I found the word agape - but that sounds
presumptuous. But I do admit to being at the
non-sensical end of the char spectrum. Maybe
charphilia is apt.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 2. I know close to zero about
any part of gasification, but I can understand why
one would promote the idea of recycling the CO2 to
get more gas (eventually the Purdue group wants
liquid, it seems). But that has to result in less
char - and apparently leaves much higher temperature
char. Eventually it is almost all CO2, for
gasification, but I worry that the char produced
this (high temperature) way might only be suited to
replace AC = activated carbon.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 3. Since Alex English name
came up today, we should note that he also recycles
CO2.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 4. The dogma of the cult I am
in says more char beats more heat, gas or liquid, so
I will look forward to some proof that is not
correct. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Good luck to the Purdue folk.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:58 PM,
Tom Miles <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Ron,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">This
work is very important for both the
biochar and gasification lists.
Biochar will be produced at the large,
or even small, scale as a co-product
of energy (liquid fuels and/or power).
The most efficient way to generate
power from the gases and vapors from
slow pyrolysis (50% of the energy) is
probably through charcoal gasification
(e.g. run the pyrolysis gases through
a charcoal gasifier). There are
commercial systems under development
to make char and power in this way.
There are also commercial systems
under development to make liquid fuels
through combinations of pyrolysis and
gasification. The char products from
these and fast pyrolysis processes run
from 0% to about 15% of fuel input. I
don’t know the fuel or char yield for
Cool Planet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">This
particular study prepared the char
with high temperature (826 C)
nitrogen. Wood particles (chips,
sawdust) and resultant char particles
in this study are larger than for
other char studies. Obs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">ervations
about BET surface area, particle size
and the char morphology are very
interesting. The char morphology looks
different than the SEM images that we
typically see. From gasification and
pyrolysis we know that pine carbonizes
differently than hardwood so it is
interesting to see the shredded
fibrous appearance of the pine char in
this study compared to the neat
geometric structures that we often
see, which is probably from hardwood
chars. The authors observe that the
macropore volume is significantly
greater than the mesopore or micropore
volume of the char. They observe
“numerous wide tunnel protruding into
the char particles. . . [that] may
provide pathways for bulk transport of
CO2 into the particle.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Char
conversion numbers are interesting.
Only 10-12% of the char was gasified
at 726 C (BET 391 m3/g) while 98-100%
was converted at 896 C. Surface area
increased with conversion but not much
greater than the 35-47% conversion at
776 C so CO2 gasification could be
used to increase surface area at the
expense of half of char (660 m3/g).
Meso and micro pore volume doubles at
the higher rate but stays pretty
constant above 776 C. Researchers
conclude that a significant proportion
of the pore volume is within macro
pores although the majority of the
internal surface area is within micro
pores. They point out that the mass
loss with surface gasification occurs
within the smaller pores leading to
pore widening.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Researchers
explain that the char gasification
process involves three steps: (1)
adsorption of the gas-phase species to
the char surface, (2) surface
reactions, and (3) desorption of the
gasification products from the
surface. The latter is the rate
limiting process.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Recycling
CO2 from gasification to gasify the
char is an interesting concept that
may apply to modifying char properties
(e.g. increase surface area) from
pyrolysis or recovering energy (heat,
power, syngas) in an industrial
setting. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">There
is very little information about
gasification or combustion chars.
Sometimes it helps to step back from
our char-philia (and gaso-phobia) to
see what products combined pyrolysis
and gasification can produce. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Tom</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">RL><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>don’t
see any relevance to the biochar
list. (Except if this work
shows that char is more valuable
in the ground and/or that an
approach like Cool Planet’s is
more efficient.) On the biochar
list, we should want BOTH high
value fuels and charcoal. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">
This Purdue work is all about
gasification of char - not
pyrolysis. I am not sure
whether the topic is appropriate
for “gasification” either, since
that list seems to want gases
for engines, not liquids.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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