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Dear all,<br>
<br>
This excellent reply below came from Rolf. Thank you!!<br>
<br>
Pictures only after 6 January, but by then I am in Africa and might
not remember to request that Rolf send them. Together, we should be
able to get this worked out.<br>
<br>
We definitely should have some other people replicating this and
suggesting solutions for char removal, etc. And there should be
some examination of the pyrolyzed log concerning the char in the
center verses the char at the edges, and % yield (by weight).<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
</th>
<td>RE: Whole log pyrolysis for char production was Re:
[Gasification] Wood heating in the UK - whole log
gasification</td>
</tr>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:50:06 +0100</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>energiesnaturals <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:energiesnaturals@gmx.de"><energiesnaturals@gmx.de></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Reply-To:
</th>
<td>energiesnaturals <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:energiesnaturals@gmx.de"><energiesnaturals@gmx.de></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></td>
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<div>Hallo Paul,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for your interest in our living room stove/boiler!</div>
<div>Because that's what it is.</div>
<div>I build this one and quite a few more many years ago in the
pre pellet area.</div>
<div>It is not really a big thing but just what i said in my 1.
Description for Ken.</div>
<div>An airtight firebox with controlled primary and secondary
air, both preheated by the non insulated air and water xchanger
above the burning chamber.</div>
<div>The primary 60% is used to regulate the gasification (
remember it is an all night heater on one log) and the secondary
actually burns the develloping gas.</div>
<div>The escape hole is central in the dome. The admission pipes
of 2.air are offset and aimed at a 30 deg.downwards to create a
turbulance and thus allow for a quite complete combustion before
the gas leaves the hot area. We use mainly white pine,
p.halepensis, airdried or so-so and we clean the conducts every
2. year or so, it burns so clean.</div>
<div>After 1-3 h, depending on the log, you can find the remaining
carbon in more or less the shape of the log.</div>
<div>We do not use the char at present, cause it would be a mess
to take it out inside the living room...,but if we put in the
last log around midnight and close all the 1. And most of the
2nd air once it is lit, we are left with a good bed of embers
for toasting our breakfast bread.</div>
<div>If our aim was to produce char , i should have incorporated a
movable floor( no grate) to discharge it into a cooling device
below or yes a grate and create a repeating cycle without the
need to light the batch every time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(Un-)luckily i cannot provide any pictures right now, because
we spend a wonderful holydays at our doughter's in Budapest.</div>
<div>But if you want some, tell me after the 6th next year.</div>
<div>B.r.</div>
<div>Rolf</div>
<br>
Paul Anderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><psanders@ilstu.edu></a> escribió:<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Rolf, (and hello to Greg!!)<br>
<br>
I am very interested in your method of whole log gasification.
In particular, I am interested in your statement that the
pyrolysis occurs first (or mostly first is fine), leaving the
char to either be consumed (char gasified) or removed. My
interest is in removing / saving the char for a variety of other
purposes, including possible use as biochar. (I am interested
in using the heat, but that can be treated as a separate
topic.) <br>
<br>
Therefore, I am sending this message to the Biochar Listserv.
But because relatively few people subscribe to both lists, I
(and Ron Larson and Tom Miles) will relay your reply to the
Biochar List. Eventually these messages could be taken off of
the Gasification List and just continued with the Biochar list,
but let's see what develops.<br>
<br>
Could you please provide some:<br>
some photos,<br>
construction plans if available, <br>
and some data on what percentage of char is yielded from the
dry weight of the feedstock logs.<br>
<br>
I am content with using cordwood that is smaller than the 45 cm
diameter that you mention, so any comments about the good or bad
of using 10 cm or 25 cm diameter feedstock would be appreciated.<br>
<br>
Although as you say it is "a tad late", I will count your
message and replies among my most treasured presents received
this year for Christmas!!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 12/26/2013 5:16 PM, energiesnaturals wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:of3j5vlbe5pox4bcm62wgun7.1388099785538@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div>Merry Christmas Ken and list ( I am aware that I am a tad
late)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One way to burn whole logs like we do (45cm across x 55 cm
long) in an efficient way is to build a well closed ,dome
shaped burning chamber out of 15 cm fire brick and have
individually regulated, preheated primary and 2,dary air , at
least 2 pipes either side.</div>
<div>You build up afire with kindling as you describe it and
after 15 min you can add an entire log of pitchy pine and it
will first gasify very nicely and than burn the charcoal if
you want.</div>
<div>The secret is to keep the walls of the combustion chamber
warm and do not use them as heat xchangers!</div>
<div>You build a convenient xchanger above it and use the hot
exhaust gas. Build it large enough to reduce the exhaust temp
to 90 deg C or less and you will be way above 50 % eff. Ours
has been working for 20+ years and is still doing fine with 2
mm black steel pipes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We never cut anything below 55 cm long and never split
anything below 45 cm, believe me or come and see!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers and a happy new year</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rolf</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:100%">Enviado desde Samsung tablet</div>
</div>
<br>
Ken Boak <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ken.boak@gmail.com"><ken.boak@gmail.com></a>
escribió:<br>
<div dir="ltr">Greg
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sharing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I want to try a few ideas for myself to see if this is
indeed possible on the small split logs I can produce
locally.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our heating needs, and indeed modest on account of the
mild climate here, but I would like to find an efficient
solution for all the thousands of acres of neglected
coppiced hardwood. Cast iron victorian stoves may be
quaint, but I am sure there are ways to improve the overall
efficiency with radical redesign.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The main burner/heat exchanger on our 24kW gas boiler is
no bigger than a gallon paint tin. Perhaps there is design
lesson to be learned here</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anything to reduce mechanical handling and processing of
wood fuels has to be a step in the right direction</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy New Year </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ken</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 26 December 2013 19:22, Greg
Manning <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com" target="_blank">a31ford@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Greetings Ken, and list members.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ken, I'm going to point you to a video of the
"underside" of a whole log (or split) "cordwood as we
call it here" stove that is a downdraft gasifier.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I can speak at length privately, however only
somewhat on list, as this is a proprietary design. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here's the link to the video:</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://youtu.be/DNYCfgEdYpg" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/DNYCfgEdYpg</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greg Manning</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:59 PM,
Ken Boak <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ken.boak@gmail.com"
target="_blank">ken.boak@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div>Happy Christmas to the gasification list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At this time of year, during the festive
holiday season, I get a bit more time to
manage the running of our woodstove, as it
rapidly warms the room and produces a cheery
effect.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our property is fairly conventionally
heated by natural gas, but a few years back,
I took the decision to invest in a woodstove
with back-boiler, to provide an alternative
or back-up to the gas fired system.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The woodstove has a flat steel tank at
the rear, the "back boilerr", in place of a
couple of the firebricks lining. This
circulates heated water entirely by the
thermosyphon principle to a radiator located
in the bedroom/workroom directly above the
stove. So in effect the stove heats the
living room/kitchen area directly, and the
room upstairs by circulating hot water.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No electricity is required for
circulation, and if worse-case we had an
extended power outage, this stove would
provide heat and comfort in the two main
occupied areas of the house. Stoking it and
attending it is often more interesting than
what is being shown on TV!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With a few days off work, I have had time
to monitor the stove and make some
assessments of its overall performance. Its
a fairly traditional stove, a rectangular
box,, made from bolted together cast iron
panels and partly lined with firebrick. It's
described as a multifuel stove - having been
supplied with a cast iron removable grate
for burning coal - which is not used when
burning wood. It's approximately 24" wide,
12" deep and 18" tall.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the UK, a common size for firewood
logs, intended for the domestic woodstove is
about 10" (254mm) long, and equal to a 1/4
round taken from a limb that may have been 5
or 6" in diameter. The reason for this is
that there is a lot of coppiced hardwood,
which has become mis-managed in the last 20
years, so there are a lot of trees with 6"
diameter shoots. The popularity of the
"firewood processor" machine, means that a
lot of this wood is now coming on the market
as domestic firewood, and sold to
suburbanites at vastly inflated prices
(about $0.50 per kilo).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am burning a mixture of kiln dried
Silver Birch, and air dried other species
which includes ash, oak and sweet chestnut.
The silver birch splits well and makes
excellent kindling. One log is split into 8
or 10 kindling sticks and these are built
into a pyramid around 2 or 3 sheets of
scrunched up newspaper. Lighting is quick
and easy - as the birch is kiln dried, and
within 5 minutes you will have a roaring
fire and the larger logs can be added.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The logs have an average weight of
approximately 1 kg. I have found that a
normal burn rate of these is two per hour.
I burn two at a time, and each hour, add a
further two to the burning char bed from the
previous logs. With firewood having a
calorific value of approximately 4kWh/kg - I
estimate the fuel input is in the order of 8
to 10kW.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course, with a traditional stove, so
much of the heat energy is lost up the
chimney, and goes to create the draft. The
efficiency of the stove, might be in the
region of 50% - somewhat better than the
open wood fire. It occurred to me that by
way of a 2 stage gasification process, it
would be possible to increase the overall
system efficiency, resulting in less wood
consumption, or more heat output per log.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This leads to a question - is it possible
to design a gasifier aimed at handling whole
log gasification - where a log is 10" long
and no more than 6" across? Can you
recreate the temperatures, turbulence and
reactants, found within the combustion zone
of the woodstove, and use this to thermally
process a single firewood log, at the rate
of one every 30 minutes or so?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've had some ideas on how this can be
done, effectively using a length of 6"
diameter stovepipe/fluepipe to make a
compact gasifier. Logs would be loaded in
from the top, and the length of the pipe
chosen to perhaps hold 4 logs at any time -
about 1m (40") tall. The bottom log would
sit in the combustion zone - so the end of
this log is constantly under the action of
the air nozzles. The logs above are
subjected to the elevated temperatures and
begin to pyrolise, char and split on their
descent down the tube.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Beneath the combustion zone would be a
fairly conventional hearth, and reduction
zone, with the char supported by a grate
below that. For an overall idea of the
system - think of HS Mukundas open top
gasifier. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Use of twin-wall stainless flue pipe
would allow the air to be pre-heated in the
outer annulus - adding to the overall
efficiency. The hot syn-gas could be burned
in whatever appropriate burner geometry
deemed necessary for either radiant space
heating or water heating with a suitable
heat exchanger coil.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope to try to build a prototype of
this over the next 10 days (a working
gasification holiday?) and to see whether a
log can be reduced in this manner. If all
that is needed is heat, then the
restrictions to produce a tar free gas need
not apply. If one can use whole logs,
without having to resort to woodchip - then
this will be a considerable saving in
mechanical handling and wood processing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the end of the day - this gasifying
stove needs to be as simple to operate as
the existing woodstove. Reloading with a
couple of logs each hour, and no
sophisticated need for fan- forced draft or
electricity to operate. Draft would come
from the chimney as per now - about 25 to 30
feet, 6" diameter.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If anyone has experience of something
similar - please let me know.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy Holidays</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ken</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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