<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi,<div>Here is a link to a more detailed article about the Navy's new process.</div><div><a href="http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20140408-scale-model-wwiiera-plane-flies-with-fuel-from-the-sea">http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20140408-scale-model-wwiiera-plane-flies-with-fuel-from-the-sea</a></div><div>The article is pasted below.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree, the devil is in the details, and that the Laws of Thermodynamics cannot be sidestepped. There has to be energy added to make the processes work and by the time a thorough EROEI analysis is done, the energy costs to manufacture the fuel is greater than the energy it contains.</div><div><br></div><div>One advantage I could see is that they may be exploiting is the higher molecular energy content in the carbonate and bicarbonate. If that stored energy can be exploited they may improve the EROEI account.</div><div>Thx,</div><div><div apple-content-edited="true">
<div>Greg </div><div><br></div><div><div id="header"><div class="section clearfix"><div id="header2">
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<h2 class="title"><span class="prologue">Energy</span>Scale model WWII-era plane flies with fuel from the sea </h2><div class="published-text"><span class="published">Published 8 April 2014</span><div id="links" class="top-links">
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<ul class="links inline"></ul> </div></div><div class="clearfix marginb"></div><div class="subtilte-summary"><p><span class="caps">U.S.</span> Navy researchers demonstrated proof-of-concept of novel technologies developed for the recovery of carbon dioxide (<span class="caps">CO2</span>) and hydrogen (H2) from seawater and conversion to a liquid hydrocarbon fuel. Fueled by a liquid hydrocarbon a component of <span class="caps">NRL</span>s novel gas-to-liquid (<span class="caps">GTL</span>) process which uses <span class="caps">CO2</span> and H2 as feedstock the research team demonstrated sustained flight of a radio-controlled (<span class="caps">RC</span>) P-51 replica of the legendary Red Tail Squadron, powered by an off-the-shelf (<span class="caps">OTS</span>) and unmodified two-stroke internal combustion engine.</p>
</div><div class="image-container standard"><img src="http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/standard/fuel-1.jpg" alt="" title="" class="standard" height="168" width="300"><p>Seawater-fueled being readied for flight test // Source: navy.mil</p></div><p>Navy researchers at the <span class="caps">U.S.</span> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nrl.navy.mil/">Naval Research Laboratory</a> (<span class="caps">NRL</span>), Materials Science and Technology Division, demonstrated proof-of-concept of <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/news-releases/2012/fueling-the-fleet-navy-looks-to-the-seas">novel <span class="caps">NRL</span> technologies</a> developed for the recovery of carbon dioxide (<span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub>) and hydrogen (H<sub>2</sub>) from seawater and conversion to a liquid hydrocarbon fuel. Fueled by a liquid hydrocarbon a component of <span class="caps">NRL</span>s novel gas-to-liquid (<span class="caps">GTL</span>) process which uses <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub> as feedstock the research team demonstrated sustained flight of a radio-controlled (<span class="caps">RC</span>) P-51 replica of the legendary Red Tail Squadron, powered by an off-the-shelf (<span class="caps">OTS</span>) and unmodified two-stroke internal combustion engine.</p><p>An <span class="caps">NRL</span> release <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/news-releases/2014/scale-model-wwii-craft-takes-flight-with-fuel-from-the-sea-concept">reports</a> that using an innovative and proprietary <span class="caps">NRL</span> electrolytic cation exchange module (E-<span class="caps">CEM</span>), both dissolved and bound <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> are removed from seawater at 92 percent efficiency <a href="http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/ad/redirect/46287/n46287?url=http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/rss.xml" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/sites/default/files/csu-hs-newswire-728x90_0.gif" alt="" title="" height="90" width="728"></a><div id="header"><div class="section clearfix"><div id="header2">
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<h2 class="title"><span class="prologue">Energy</span>Scale model WWII-era plane flies with fuel from the sea </h2><div class="published-text"><span class="published">Published 8 April 2014</span><div id="links" class="top-links">
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<ul class="links inline"></ul> </div></div><div class="clearfix marginb"></div><div class="subtilte-summary"><p><span class="caps">U.S.</span> Navy researchers demonstrated proof-of-concept of novel technologies developed for the recovery of carbon dioxide (<span class="caps">CO2</span>) and hydrogen (H2) from seawater and conversion to a liquid hydrocarbon fuel. Fueled by a liquid hydrocarbon a component of <span class="caps">NRL</span>s novel gas-to-liquid (<span class="caps">GTL</span>) process which uses <span class="caps">CO2</span> and H2 as feedstock the research team demonstrated sustained flight of a radio-controlled (<span class="caps">RC</span>) P-51 replica of the legendary Red Tail Squadron, powered by an off-the-shelf (<span class="caps">OTS</span>) and unmodified two-stroke internal combustion engine.</p>
</div><div class="image-container standard"><img src="http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/standard/fuel-1.jpg" alt="" title="" class="standard" height="168" width="300"><p>Seawater-fueled being readied for flight test // Source: navy.mil</p></div><p>Navy researchers at the <span class="caps">U.S.</span> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nrl.navy.mil/">Naval Research Laboratory</a> (<span class="caps">NRL</span>), Materials Science and Technology Division, demonstrated proof-of-concept of <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/news-releases/2012/fueling-the-fleet-navy-looks-to-the-seas">novel <span class="caps">NRL</span> technologies</a> developed for the recovery of carbon dioxide (<span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub>) and hydrogen (H<sub>2</sub>) from seawater and conversion to a liquid hydrocarbon fuel. Fueled by a liquid hydrocarbon a component of <span class="caps">NRL</span>s novel gas-to-liquid (<span class="caps">GTL</span>) process which uses <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub> as feedstock the research team demonstrated sustained flight of a radio-controlled (<span class="caps">RC</span>) P-51 replica of the legendary Red Tail Squadron, powered by an off-the-shelf (<span class="caps">OTS</span>) and unmodified two-stroke internal combustion engine.</p><p>An <span class="caps">NRL</span> release <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/news-releases/2014/scale-model-wwii-craft-takes-flight-with-fuel-from-the-sea-concept">reports</a> that using an innovative and proprietary <span class="caps">NRL</span> electrolytic cation exchange module (E-<span class="caps">CEM</span>), both dissolved and bound <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> are removed from seawater at 92 percent efficiency by re-equilibrating carbonate and bicarbonate to <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and simultaneously producing H<sub>2</sub>. The gases are then converted to liquid hydrocarbons by a metal catalyst in a reactor system.</p><p><span class="dquo"></span>In close collaboration with the Office of Naval Research P38 Naval Reserve program, <span class="caps">NRL</span> has developed a game changing technology for extracting, simultaneously, <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub> from seawater, said Dr. Heather Willauer, <span class="caps">NRL</span>
research chemist. This is the first time technology of this nature has
been demonstrated with the potential for transition, from the
laboratory, to full-scale commercial implementation.</p><p><span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> in the air and in seawater
is an abundant carbon resource, but the concentration in the ocean (100
milligrams per liter [mg/L]) is about 140 times greater than that in
air, and 1/3 the concentration of <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> from a stack gas (296 mg/L). Two to three percent of the <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> in seawater is dissolved <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> gas in the form of carbonic acid, one percent is carbonate, and the remaining 96 to 97 percent is bound in bicarbonate.</p><p><span class="caps">NRL</span> says it has made significant advances in the development of a gas-to-liquids (<span class="caps">GTL</span>) synthesis process to convert <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub> from seawater to a fuel-like fraction of C<sub>9</sub>-C<sub>16</sub> molecules. In the first patented step, an iron-based catalyst has been developed that can achieve <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub>
conversion levels up to 60 percent and decrease unwanted methane
production in favor of longer-chain unsaturated hydrocarbons (olefins).
These value-added hydrocarbons from this process serve as building
blocks for the production of industrial chemicals and designer fuels.</p><p>In the second step these olefins can be converted to compounds of a
higher molecular using controlled polymerization. The resulting liquid
contains hydrocarbon molecules in the carbon range, C<sub>9</sub>-C<sub>16</sub>, suitable for use a possible renewable replacement for petroleum based jet fuel.</p><p>The predicted cost of jet fuel using these technologies is in the
range of $3-$6 per gallon, and with sufficient funding and partnerships,
this approach could be commercially viable within the next seven to ten
years. Pursuing remote land-based options would be the first step
towards a future sea-based solution.</p><p>The minimum modular carbon capture and fuel synthesis unit is envisioned to be scaled-up by the addition individual E-<span class="caps">CEM</span> modules and reactor tubes to meet fuel demands.</p><p><span class="caps">NRL</span> operates a lab-scale fixed-bed
catalytic reactor system and the outputs of this prototype unit have
confirmed the presence of the required C<sub>9</sub>-C<sub>16</sub> molecules in the liquid. This lab-scale system is the first step towards transitioning the <span class="caps">NRL</span> technology into commercial modular reactor units that may be scaled-up by increasing the length and number of reactors.</p></div></div></div></div></div></div>The process efficiencies and the capability to simultaneously produce large quantities of H<sub>2</sub>,
and process the seawater without the need for additional chemicals or
pollutants, has made these technologies far superior to previously
developed and tested membrane and ion exchange technologies for recovery
of <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> from seawater or air. to <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and simultaneously producing H<sub>2</sub>. The gases are then converted to liquid hydrocarbons by a metal catalyst in a reactor system.</p><p><span class="dquo"></span>In close collaboration with the Office of Naval Research P38 Naval Reserve program, <span class="caps">NRL</span> has developed a game changing technology for extracting, simultaneously, <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub> from seawater, said Dr. Heather Willauer, <span class="caps">NRL</span>
research chemist. This is the first time technology of this nature has
been demonstrated with the potential for transition, from the
laboratory, to full-scale commercial implementation.</p><p><span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> in the air and in seawater
is an abundant carbon resource, but the concentration in the ocean (100
milligrams per liter [mg/L]) is about 140 times greater than that in
air, and 1/3 the concentration of <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> from a stack gas (296 mg/L). Two to three percent of the <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> in seawater is dissolved <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> gas in the form of carbonic acid, one percent is carbonate, and the remaining 96 to 97 percent is bound in bicarbonate.</p><p><span class="caps">NRL</span> says it has made significant advances in the development of a gas-to-liquids (<span class="caps">GTL</span>) synthesis process to convert <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub> from seawater to a fuel-like fraction of C<sub>9</sub>-C<sub>16</sub> molecules. In the first patented step, an iron-based catalyst has been developed that can achieve <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub>
conversion levels up to 60 percent and decrease unwanted methane
production in favor of longer-chain unsaturated hydrocarbons (olefins).
These value-added hydrocarbons from this process serve as building
blocks for the production of industrial chemicals and designer fuels.</p><p>In the second step these olefins can be converted to compounds of a
higher molecular using controlled polymerization. The resulting liquid
contains hydrocarbon molecules in the carbon range, C<sub>9</sub>-C<sub>16</sub>, suitable for use a possible renewable replacement for petroleum based jet fuel.</p><p>The predicted cost of jet fuel using these technologies is in the
range of $3-$6 per gallon, and with sufficient funding and partnerships,
this approach could be commercially viable within the next seven to ten
years. Pursuing remote land-based options would be the first step
towards a future sea-based solution.</p><p>The minimum modular carbon capture and fuel synthesis unit is envisioned to be scaled-up by the addition individual E-<span class="caps">CEM</span> modules and reactor tubes to meet fuel demands.</p><p><span class="caps">NRL</span> operates a lab-scale fixed-bed
catalytic reactor system and the outputs of this prototype unit have
confirmed the presence of the required C<sub>9</sub>-C<sub>16</sub> molecules in the liquid. This lab-scale system is the first step towards transitioning the <span class="caps">NRL</span> technology into commercial modular reactor units that may be scaled-up by increasing the length and number of reactors.</p><p>The process efficiencies and the capability to simultaneously produce large quantities of H<sub>2</sub>,
and process the seawater without the need for additional chemicals or
pollutants, has made these technologies far superior to previously
developed and tested membrane and ion exchange technologies for recovery
of <span class="caps">CO</span><sub>2</sub> from seawater or air.</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Apr 11, 2014, at 6:42 AM, <a href="mailto:bayent@ns.sympatico.ca">bayent@ns.sympatico.ca</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>The devil in the details!<br>;)<br>---- Kevin <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote: <br><blockquote type="cite">Dear DoDuc, Stephen, and Dan D<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">#The Patent Number would seem to be:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We also note, that, in at least one of our prior reports, the one concerning "US Patent 8,435,457 - Synthesis of Hydrocarbons Via Catalytic Reduction of CO2" specifically, we made an error in the transcription of patent numbers in our excerpts, which sadly might have contributed to confusion on the part of those interested enough to search the available electronic records themselves.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"># This is no big deal... simply degas seawater to recover the CO2 dissolved in it, perhaps with assistance of a bit of acid to break up carbonates. To get hydrogen, simply electrolyze the water. Once they have the CO2, they simply add more energy to break it up into CO. Then they can make Synthesis Gas, and then they can make hydrocarbon fuels.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"># They don't say where they get the energy to electrolyze the water. That is "the Elephant in the Room" that they don't address. :-) The original article is highly misleading, and seems to suggest that the Navy can simply take seawater and run its ships from it, to meet its energy requirements.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Kevin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ----- Original Message ----- <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: Tuong DoDuc <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 12:41 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Try this better address for the article.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> I agree with Stephen. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> The critical part (energy wise) is energy to produce H2, which as stated, should come from either nuclear or any other non-fossil-fuels like wind, solar...<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> The second part, as I understood, is the synthesis of H2 and CO2 under the Fischer-Tropsch catalyst. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Part 1 is often hided to the public as they would like to emphasize their contribution in Part 2, as well as to please the tax-payers that they are doing great thing. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> More scientific background can be found here with some evidence of the Navy's Patents: <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.wvcoal.com/research-development/us-navy-harvests-co2-from-seawater-for-hydrocarbon-synthesis.html">http://www.wvcoal.com/research-development/us-navy-harvests-co2-from-seawater-for-hydrocarbon-synthesis.html</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Few cents from my side.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> D.D.Tuong<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:55 AM, <<a href="mailto:sabbadess@aol.com">sabbadess@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Dan,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> There is a huge amount of energy in a gallon of jet fuel. The only power source remotely big enough is the ship's nuclear reactor.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Stephen Abbadessa<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> -----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> From: Carefreeland <<a href="mailto:Carefreeland@aol.com">Carefreeland@aol.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: gasification <<a href="mailto:gasification@bioenergylists.org">gasification@bioenergylists.org</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: wastewatts <<a href="mailto:wastewatts@yahoogroups.com">wastewatts@yahoogroups.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Thu, Apr 10, 2014 9:51 pm<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Subject: [Gasification] Try this better address for the article.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Article didn't copy right first time Try this.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.ibtimes.com/goodbye-oil-us-navy-cracks-new-renewable-energy-technology-turn-seawater-fuel-allowing-1568455">http://www.ibtimes.com/goodbye-oil-us-navy-cracks-new-renewable-energy-technology-turn-seawater-fuel-allowing-1568455</a> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Where does the energy come from the crack the seawater? Anyone? Anyone? <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Dan Dimiduk <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Gasification mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> _______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Gasification mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> _______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Gasification mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br></blockquote><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>