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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Dr. Karve,<div><br></div><div>Being able to technically generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon in a water gas reaction does not make the process economically competitive. Typically, the use of incandescent carbon is a batch, cyclic process which produces pulses of gases which vary in purity over each cycle</div><div><br></div><div>Compare the economics of using a batch feedstock which has a variable composition to one which has a very pure, low cost feedstock (CH4) day in and day out. As a process designer, you can readily see that even through the chemistry works out to generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon, the day to day practicality of operating a multistage process with such a variable feedstock is much more difficult and more expensive.</div><div><br></div><div>Art <br><br><br><br><br><div>> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 06:34:07 +0530<br>> From: adkarve@gmail.com<br>> To: gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)<br>> <br>> Dear Art,<br>> I am not a chemist but I feel that we can also separate the hydrogen<br>> from water gas. India is the world's third largest producer of<br>> chemical fertilizers and I am quite sure that the Indian fertilizer<br>> producers also use natural gas as their source of hydrogen. India<br>> generates annually about 800 million tonnes of agricultural waste,<br>> which can serve as the source to produce charcoal. This charcoal would<br>> have the same amount of energy as all the petroleum that we import.<br>> We have developed charring kilns for charring light biomass into a<br>> powdery charcoal. currently we briquette it and use it as domestic<br>> fuel. We have also made water gas from our char and demonstrated its<br>> use as fuel.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>> <br>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Greg Manning <a31ford@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> > Art<br>> ><br>> > Thank you for the explanation,<br>> ><br>> > I knew they used natural gas, but had no idea of the process.<br>> ><br>> > Greg Manning<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Art Krenzel <phoenix98604@msn.com> wrote:<br>> >><br>> >> Dr. Karve,<br>> >><br>> >> The Haber Bosch Process is used to convert hydrogen from natural gas and<br>> >> nitrogen from air into ammonia. Yes, it is an energy intensive process.<br>> >><br>> >> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process<br>> >><br>> >> This conversion is typically conducted at 15-25 MPa (2,200-3,600 psi) or<br>> >> 150-250 bar and between 300-550 °C (572-1,022 °F), as the gases are passed<br>> >> over four beds of catalyst, with cooling between each pass so as to maintain<br>> >> a reasonable equilibrium constant. On each pass only about 15% conversion<br>> >> occurs, but any unreacted gases are recycled, and eventually an overall<br>> >> conversion of 97% is achieved.[1]<br>> >><br>> >> Art Krenzel<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> > Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 07:29:51 +0530<br>> >> > From: adkarve@gmail.com<br>> >> > To: biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com;<br>> >> > gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar +<br>> >> > hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)<br>> >><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Dear Greg,<br>> >> > the major component of natural gas is methane. How does the fertilizer<br>> >> > industry separate out hydrogen from methane? The process must be<br>> >> > consuming a lot of energy.<br>> >> > Yours<br>> >> > A.D.Karve<br>> >> ><br>> >> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> >> > > Dear List,<br>> >> > > Already in the first decade of the last century, Haber in Germany<br>> >> > > developed a process for making ammonia by combining nitrogen in the<br>> >> > > air with hydrogen. I was told that this process is used even today by<br>> >> > > fertilizer manufacturers. Where does the fertilizer industry get its<br>> >> > > hydrogen from?<br>> >> > > Yours<br>> >> > > A.D.Karve<br>> >> > ><br>> >> > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 8:59 PM, John Bonitz john.bonitz@gmail.com<br>> >> > > [biochar-policy] <biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com> wrote:<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> Return of the Pyromaniax: Proton Power and its hydrous pyrolysis<br>> >> > >> process for<br>> >> > >> super low-cost hydrogen, by Jim Lane, May 8, 2014<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2014/05/08/return-of-the-pyromaniax-proton-power-and-its-hydrous-pyrolysis-process-for-super-low-cost-hydrogen/<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> John Bonitz<br>> >> > >> Pittsboro, NC<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> 919-360-2492 | LinkedIn<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> > >> Gasification mailing list<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> > >> Gasification@bioenergylists.org<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> > >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> > >><br>> >> > ><br>> >> > ><br>> >> > ><br>> >> > > --<br>> >> > > ***<br>> >> > > Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> >> > > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute<br>> >> > > (ARTI)<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > --<br>> >> > ***<br>> >> > Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> >> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute<br>> >> > (ARTI)<br>> >> ><br>> >> > _______________________________________________<br>> >> > Gasification mailing list<br>> >> ><br>> >> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> > Gasification@bioenergylists.org<br>> >> ><br>> >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> ><br>> >> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> ><br>> >> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Gasification mailing list<br>> >><br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> Gasification@bioenergylists.org<br>> >><br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >><br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >><br>> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Gasification mailing list<br>> ><br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> > Gasification@bioenergylists.org<br>> ><br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> ><br>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/<br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> ***<br>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Gasification mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> Gasification@bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/<br></div></div> </div></body>
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