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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Dr. Karve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I second Art’s assessment. Not every scheme is feasible but I really appreciate your exploration of the boundaries. I, for one, have learned much from you over the years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best Wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mark Ludlow<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Art Krenzel<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:01 PMw<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dr. Karve,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think you have the "People's Answer"- distributed energy made from recycled organic materials. Your work is very important to many people around the world. I salute you and your work.<br><br>Art <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><br><br> <br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 23:26:08 +0530<br>> From: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a><br>> To: <a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)<br>> <br>> Dear Art,<br>> yes I agree with you, that using methane from natural gas would make<br>> the process simpler and cheaper than using coal. Besides, using coal<br>> would also involve getting rid of ash. Perhaps, one can produce<br>> enough methane from agricultural and urban waste, which would make it<br>> a carbon neutral process.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>> <br>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Art Krenzel <<a href="mailto:phoenix98604@msn.com">phoenix98604@msn.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > Dr. Karve,<br>> ><br>> > Being able to technically generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon in a<br>> > water gas reaction does not make the process economically competitive.<br>> > Typically, the use of incandescent carbon is a batch, cyclic process which<br>> > produces pulses of gases which vary in purity over each cycle<br>> ><br>> > Compare the economics of using a batch feedstock which has a variable<br>> > composition to one which has a very pure, low cost feedstock (CH4) day in<br>> > and day out. As a process designer, you can readily see that even through<br>> > the chemistry works out to generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon, the<br>> > day to day practicality of operating a multistage process with such a<br>> > variable feedstock is much more difficult and more expensive.<br>> ><br>> > Art<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> >> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 06:34:07 +0530<br>> >> From: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a><br>> >> To: <a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> ><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar +<br>> >> hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)<br>> >><br>> >> Dear Art,<br>> >> I am not a chemist but I feel that we can also separate the hydrogen<br>> >> from water gas. India is the world's third largest producer of<br>> >> chemical fertilizers and I am quite sure that the Indian fertilizer<br>> >> producers also use natural gas as their source of hydrogen. India<br>> >> generates annually about 800 million tonnes of agricultural waste,<br>> >> which can serve as the source to produce charcoal. This charcoal would<br>> >> have the same amount of energy as all the petroleum that we import.<br>> >> We have developed charring kilns for charring light biomass into a<br>> >> powdery charcoal. currently we briquette it and use it as domestic<br>> >> fuel. We have also made water gas from our char and demonstrated its<br>> >> use as fuel.<br>> >> Yours<br>> >> A.D.Karve<br>> >><br>> >> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Greg Manning <<a href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com">a31ford@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> >> > Art<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Thank you for the explanation,<br>> >> ><br>> >> > I knew they used natural gas, but had no idea of the process.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Greg Manning<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Art Krenzel <<a href="mailto:phoenix98604@msn.com">phoenix98604@msn.com</a>><br>> >> > wrote:<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> Dr. Karve,<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> The Haber Bosch Process is used to convert hydrogen from natural gas<br>> >> >> and<br>> >> >> nitrogen from air into ammonia. Yes, it is an energy intensive process.<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> See: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process</a><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> This conversion is typically conducted at 15-25 MPa (2,200-3,600 psi)<br>> >> >> or<br>> >> >> 150-250 bar and between 300-550 °C (572-1,022 °F), as the gases are<br>> >> >> passed<br>> >> >> over four beds of catalyst, with cooling between each pass so as to<br>> >> >> maintain<br>> >> >> a reasonable equilibrium constant. On each pass only about 15%<br>> >> >> conversion<br>> >> >> occurs, but any unreacted gases are recycled, and eventually an overall<br>> >> >> conversion of 97% is achieved.[1]<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> Art Krenzel<br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> > Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 07:29:51 +0530<br>> >> >> > From: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a><br>> >> >> > To: <a href="mailto:biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com">biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com</a>;<br>> >> >> > <a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar +<br>> >> >> > hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > Dear Greg,<br>> >> >> > the major component of natural gas is methane. How does the<br>> >> >> > fertilizer<br>> >> >> > industry separate out hydrogen from methane? The process must be<br>> >> >> > consuming a lot of energy.<br>> >> >> > Yours<br>> >> >> > A.D.Karve<br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>> >> >> > wrote:<br>> >> >> > > Dear List,<br>> >> >> > > Already in the first decade of the last century, Haber in Germany<br>> >> >> > > developed a process for making ammonia by combining nitrogen in the<br>> >> >> > > air with hydrogen. I was told that this process is used even today<br>> >> >> > > by<br>> >> >> > > fertilizer manufacturers. Where does the fertilizer industry get<br>> >> >> > > its<br>> >> >> > > hydrogen from?<br>> >> >> > > Yours<br>> >> >> > > A.D.Karve<br>> >> >> > ><br>> >> >> > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 8:59 PM, John Bonitz <a href="mailto:john.bonitz@gmail.com">john.bonitz@gmail.com</a><br>> >> >> > > [biochar-policy] <<a href="mailto:biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com">biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> Return of the Pyromaniax: Proton Power and its hydrous pyrolysis<br>> >> >> > >> process for<br>> >> >> > >> super low-cost hydrogen, by Jim Lane, May 8, 2014<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> <a href="http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2014/05/08/return-of-the-pyromaniax-proton-power-and-its-hydrous-pyrolysis-process-for-super-low-cost-hydrogen/">http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2014/05/08/return-of-the-pyromaniax-proton-power-and-its-hydrous-pyrolysis-process-for-super-low-cost-hydrogen/</a><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> John Bonitz<br>> >> >> > >> Pittsboro, NC<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> 919-360-2492 | LinkedIn<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> >> > >> Gasification mailing list<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> >> > >> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> >> > >> <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>> >> >> > >><br>> >> >> > ><br>> >> >> > ><br>> >> >> > ><br>> >> >> > > --<br>> >> >> > > ***<br>> >> >> > > Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> >> >> > > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute<br>> >> >> > > (ARTI)<br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > --<br>> >> >> > ***<br>> >> >> > Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> >> >> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute<br>> >> >> > (ARTI)<br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > _______________________________________________<br>> >> >> > Gasification mailing list<br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> >> > <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >> ><br>> >> >> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> >> > <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> >> Gasification mailing list<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> >> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> >> <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>> >> >><br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > _______________________________________________<br>> >> > Gasification mailing list<br>> >> ><br>> >> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> > <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> ><br>> >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> ><br>> >> > <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >> ><br>> >> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> > <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>> >> ><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> --<br>> >> ***<br>> >> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Gasification mailing list<br>> >><br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >><br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >><br>> >> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> >><br>> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Gasification mailing list<br>> ><br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> > <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> ><br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> > <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> ><br>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> > <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> ***<br>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Gasification mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> <br>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>> <a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>