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<DIV>A.D.Karve,</DIV>
<DIV>I see the wisdom in this, as that stuff was on its way to being airborne
inside a year if left to rot.</DIV>
<DIV>I wonder how long the cycle time can be rationalized to be deemed
environmentally sound. </DIV>
<DIV>2 years- 10 years- 40 years. seems as though the small gain (biochar)
when it gets leveraged out there to far (in time), then becomes undesirable
overall considering that it was carbon positive for so long. anyone dare
throw some math at this one?</DIV>
<DIV>Luke</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=adkarve@gmail.com
href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">Anand Karve</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] Biochar - Carbon
Negative?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Dear Luke,
<DIV>I agree with you in that one should not disturb the long cycle. Our
organisation advocates the use of agricultural waste and fallen leaves to be
used as fuel. In this case, the cycle time is only one year.</DIV>
<DIV>Yours</DIV>
<DIV>A.D.Karve</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_signature>***<BR>Dr. A.D. Karve<BR><BR>Chairman, Samuchit
Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<A href="http://www.samuchit.com"
target=_blank>www.samuchit.com</A>)<BR><BR>Trustee & Founder President,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Luke Gardner <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:lgardner@wwest.net"
target=_blank>lgardner@wwest.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
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<DIV>Karve,</DIV>
<DIV>I agree, fundamentally. The way I see it is that there are a
few carbon cycles that are happening on this third rock. And its important to
keep the distinction between them. for simplicity's sake lets just look
at two of the cycles and call them the long cycle and the short cycle.
The long cycle locks up carbon and traps it within the earth n the form of
hydrocarbons, and through the billions of years carbon cycles from earth to
air, and and back again. Then there is the short cycle, in which the
carbon is not trapped underground in grand quantities for grand periods of
time. This short cycle it locks up carbon within the biomass on the
surface of the earth for short periods of time. I pose this question...
what is the average length of time carbon is trapped in biomass. On the
west coast in the US carbon can be trapped for thousands of years in the wood
of a once great temperate rain forest. In the Midwest- not so much more
like an annual event. I think it is important to understand the lag time
involved, the effect of burning something that will grow again in one year, is
far different from burning something that will take a thousand years to
regrow. A year from now one act would be nearly carbon neutral, whereas
the other would be 999 years not so carbon neutral. Consider this to be
a “carbon lag time”. While this “lag” is in effect there is more carbon
in the air than there should be... and that is what the real concern is all
about. </DIV>
<DIV> Burning biomass may induce a portion of the carbon into the
long cycle, and burning fossil fuels injects nearly all carbon from the long
cycle into the short cycle. By burning fossil fuels we are short
circuiting the long cycle and end up with more carbon in the air than should
be – today. Also by burning biomass we short circuit the short cycle and
end up with more carbon in the air than should be - today.</DIV>
<DIV> I think its safe to say that we collectively agree that
interfering with the long cycle like we have is bad. The question
I pose is this. By how many years is it acceptable to short circuit the
short cycle?</DIV>
<DIV>Luke Gardner</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=adkarve@gmail.com href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Anand Karve</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 20, 2016 1:43 AM</DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion
of biomass pyrolysis and gasification</A> </DIV></SPAN><SPAN>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] Biochar - Carbon
Negative?</DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=h5>
<DIV dir=ltr>Dear Doug,
<DIV>biomass is formed by the process of photosynthesis. Burning biomass is
considered to be carbon neutral, because the carbon dioxide produced in this
process was originally already in the atmosphere before it got sequestered in
plants by photosynthesis. After being released into the atmosphere by burning,
it would be sequestered again in plants by photosynthesis. Therefore, the
carbon dioxide added to the atmosphere is zero. if any of the biomass is
converted into char and buried into the soil, it creates a negative carbon
dioxide balance, irrespective of the proportion of char going into the
soil.</DIV>
<DIV>Yours</DIV>
<DIV>A.D.Karve</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>***<BR>Dr. A.D. Karve<BR><BR>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<A
href="http://www.samuchit.com"
target=_blank>www.samuchit.com</A>)<BR><BR>Trustee & Founder President,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Doug Williams <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:doug.williams.nz@gmail.com"
target=_blank>doug.williams.nz@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi
Mark,<BR><BR>You ask:<BR><SPAN>> After gasification, approximately 5% of
the woody biomass remains a biochar<BR>> which sequesters carbon, hence a
'carbon negative' claim can be made.<BR><BR></SPAN>Qualify which type of
gasification, because 5% would only apply to a<BR>high performance gas
making system. If however it was a pyrolysing char<BR>making system, about
1/3rd of the fuel weight would be char, but two<BR>thirds would be consumed
by combustion to become a CO2 emission. So not<BR>honestly carbon negative
in my opinion (other than replacing fossil<BR>carbon). Restoration of the
environmental CO2 balance would be a
tricky<BR>calculation.<BR><SPAN><BR>> Alternatively, if the woody waste
is left to rot in situ, the carbon<BR>> sequestration is 0% (all carbon
is released/transformed into CO2 and other<BR>>
gasses).<BR><BR></SPAN>That fits the normal explanations, we all go back to
CO2 and CH4 if<BR>left to rot(:-)<BR><BR>> True?<BR><BR>Truth can be very
elastic sided when claims are made about<BR>gasification, so take care to
confirm all calculations regarding the<BR>process in question.There is a lot
of attention paid to carbon credits<BR>as an intensive to cheat in the
Souther Hemisphere, and one should be<BR>careful if included in any
proposals.<BR><SPAN><FONT color=#888888><BR>Doug
Williams,<BR>Fluidyne.<BR></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV>
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