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Tom M.,<br>
<br>
The mention of 5000 hours/yr is an average of 14 hrs per day. But
how much power do they need? Minimum expectations, average, and
maximum and peak requirements are all very different. If the 4
houses want 20 kW each, that is different from power for basic LED
lighting and fans in gas heating and a refrigerator running. 5 kW
max and 3 to 4 kW sustained for 14 hours is withing reach.<br>
<br>
What did your requester specify? Any mention of the available
biomass? In what climatic region? Summer houses in Wisconsin
that are only occupied for 4 to 8 months are different from Alaska
12 month residences.<br>
<br>
ANY size of operational system will find some people who will want
it. Then the question becomes the price they are willing to pay.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/3/2017 1:42 PM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:01dc01d265f9$8813d970$983b8c50$@trmiles.com"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tom,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My
request is technology agnostic at this point. Any style of
pyrolysis or gasification are welcome. I’m looking for
small, reliable, and maintainable. What manufactured
gasifier system can deliver power to four houses in a
microgrid for 5,000 hours per year? The fuel form and
moisture is an essential part of the geometry of the
reactor. We can make the fuel to suit. Over the years we
have seen several small scale systems which have not gone
beyond one or two units. Are there other suppliers, like the
ones mentioned, where you can find systems which have
operated for 5,000 hours or year or more? Are there
gasifiers that have been integrated into microgrid systems
with diesel, wind, or solar? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Gasification
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>l<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 8:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Tom
Miles,<br>
You might want to paint somewhat a more complete
picture, the "successful" units may need to be fed less than
10% moisture wood, less than 3% fines, which is a rarefied
wood source indeed. Most are also reliant on "filters" that
have to be shut down and replaced periodically and a host of
other aspects that reduce the potential in the market. <br>
A 20 kw unit by US Standards, is good for one house. <br>
If those who wonder what has gone on with the
gasification list, perhaps because of the lack of innovation
to reduce the narrowness of the feedstock, notably this list
is primarily focused on downdraft systems, there are
approaches that expand the application base and increase
market necessary to prevent saturation at a low level. <br>
Energy prices or availability has repeatedly cycled
gasification applications up and down, from coal fired "town
gas" units replaced with natural gas, to WW II fossil fuel
shortages. However, there are applications not subject to
this cyclic effect. <br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Leland
T. "Tom" Taylor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Thermogenics
Inc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">+001-505-463-8422 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.thermogenicx.com"><span
style="color:windowtext">www.thermogenicx.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Skype:
ltt.invent<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Tom Miles <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"><span
style="color:windowtext">tmiles@trmiles.com</span></a>><br>
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span
style="color:windowtext">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>><br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 9:18 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_34cfce28-9a29-47fc-a6e1-19d7ad2ecc32">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
received in inquiry last week from someone looking
for a microgrid scale gasifier to power four homes
in a remote off-grid wooded area. What suppliers do
we have for that scale? </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We
have seen some reliable systems at a larger scale.
All Power Labs (</span><span style="color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.allpowerlabs.com/%29,"
target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">http://www.allpowerlabs.com/),</span></u></a>
Volter (volter.fi), Entrada (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.entrade.de/" target="_blank"><u><span
style="color:blue">http://www.entrade.de/</span></u></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">)
and Spanner (</span><span style="color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/company/102-spanner-re-2-company"
target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/company/102-spanner-re-2-company</span></u></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">)
all seem to be selling refined units at the 20kWe+.
Are there others? </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tom
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Gasification [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?"><u><span
style="color:blue">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pete & Sheri<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 7:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification' <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><u><span
style="color:blue">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></u></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Where is
Everyone?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello
Doug.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Re:</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="color:black">It's a mute point drawing the
low price of gasoline into our discussions”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">A moot
point?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I was
only responding to your questioning the lack of
traffic to this forum, not its mission.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Most
people spend their discretionary time doing what
seems most important to them, I think. When
gasoline is USD$4.00 per gallon, the idea of
developing or supporting cheaper alternatives rises
higher towards the top of the to-do list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Oh- maybe
you did mean “mute” point. In either case, I won’t
bring it up again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Pete
Stanaitis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">-----------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
Gasification [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></u></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Doug<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 2:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></u></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Where is
Everyone?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hi
Pete,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">We
are only as professional as our need to breath the
same air. Because we all are at different levels of
knowledge, none of us can know how to answer, or ask
questions, due to the differing perspective of how
our interests have "drawn us in". We all share that
gasification has such promise for energy
applications, so asking questions or providing
answers is the reason this list was created.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Yes,
there have been other groups form to discuss
gasification, There are no short cuts to reliable
gasifier performance, but information without
scrutiny can only speak for itself. This Forum and
it's extensive collection of related information,
was the first to recognize the need for such
discussions and become available to us all. There
never has been any restriction on who participates,
and some very good people have shared with us
particularly in the earlier years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">It's
a mute point drawing the low price of gasoline into
our discussions relating to an alternative for
fossil fuels! It's not about the price, but
availability which can change over night, and for
me, that means being able to be self supporting in
time of need. NZ has had a reported 32,000 quakes
this last year, plus major storms that destroyed
electrical distribution facilities. Are any of us
really prepared for the inconvenience when, not if,
it comes? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Doug
Williams.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On
03/01/17 12:21, Pete & Sheri wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello
Doug.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
view this list to be for the professional for the
most part, so I hesitate to join in unless I have
a question that I can clearly describe.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But
I think at least part of the reason for the lack
of traffic is that there are now several other
websites that cater to hobbyist and advanced
tinkerer wood-to-electricity crowd:</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Yahoo
woodgas group,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Yahoo
charcoal gasifier group</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Wayne
Keith’s driveonwood.com website</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-allpowerlabs.com</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
I am sure there are many others.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In
addition (although I have been flamed for even
mentioning it), gasoline for USD$2.00 per gallon
does take the edge off for many people. </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Pete
Stanaitis</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">----------------</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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