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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>5,000 hours has as much to do with longevity as actual use. Most small scale gasifiers have not run more than 1000 hours in their lifetime. A gasifier built for 5,000 hours per year should be expected to last a few years. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Location. US/Canada West coast woodlands. 46-52 degrees latitude. 3000 heating degree days. 100 cooling degree days. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>We can get lost in loads. The PV folks have done a great job of residential load characterization and control. Let’s stick with 5 kW per household and 20 kWe for a collection of four in a micro-grid. At this time let’s ignore price. What gasifier based microgrid systems are available? Gasifiers often work best at or above some baseload. Wind, solar and diesel are clearly options for integration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Cleanspark microgrid <a href="http://www.cleanspark.com/">http://www.cleanspark.com/</a> seems to be a new supplier with a Stratean XG4500 gasifier. No capacity indicated. Tested 12/15 on wood pellets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><a href="https://microgridknowledge.com/microgrids-on-clean-baseload/">https://microgridknowledge.com/microgrids-on-clean-baseload/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> <img border=0 width=1022 height=600 style='width:10.6416in;height:6.25in' id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.png@01D265DE.4BFA84E0" alt="Stratean gasifier schematic small"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><a href="http://tylerlybbert.com/?p=258">http://tylerlybbert.com/?p=258</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Anderson<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 1:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone? - 4 houses off grid<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tom M.,<br><br>The mention of 5000 hours/yr is an average of 14 hrs per day. But how much power do they need? Minimum expectations, average, and maximum and peak requirements are all very different. If the 4 houses want 20 kW each, that is different from power for basic LED lighting and fans in gas heating and a refrigerator running. 5 kW max and 3 to 4 kW sustained for 14 hours is withing reach.<br><br>What did your requester specify? Any mention of the available biomass? In what climatic region? Summer houses in Wisconsin that are only occupied for 4 to 8 months are different from Alaska 12 month residences.<br><br>ANY size of operational system will find some people who will want it. Then the question becomes the price they are willing to pay.<br><br>Paul<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 1/3/2017 1:42 PM, Tom Miles wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Tom,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>My request is technology agnostic at this point. Any style of pyrolysis or gasification are welcome. I’m looking for small, reliable, and maintainable. What manufactured gasifier system can deliver power to four houses in a microgrid for 5,000 hours per year? The fuel form and moisture is an essential part of the geometry of the reactor. We can make the fuel to suit. Over the years we have seen several small scale systems which have not gone beyond one or two units. Are there other suppliers, like the ones mentioned, where you can find systems which have operated for 5,000 hours or year or more? Are there gasifiers that have been integrated into microgrid systems with diesel, wind, or solar? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Tom</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>l<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 8:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Tom Miles,<br> You might want to paint somewhat a more complete picture, the "successful" units may need to be fed less than 10% moisture wood, less than 3% fines, which is a rarefied wood source indeed. Most are also reliant on "filters" that have to be shut down and replaced periodically and a host of other aspects that reduce the potential in the market. <br> A 20 kw unit by US Standards, is good for one house. <br> If those who wonder what has gone on with the gasification list, perhaps because of the lack of innovation to reduce the narrowness of the feedstock, notably this list is primarily focused on downdraft systems, there are approaches that expand the application base and increase market necessary to prevent saturation at a low level. <br> Energy prices or availability has repeatedly cycled gasification applications up and down, from coal fired "town gas" units replaced with natural gas, to WW II fossil fuel shortages. However, there are applications not subject to this cyclic effect. <br> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Leland T. "Tom" Taylor</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thermogenics Inc. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>+001-505-463-8422 </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="http://www.thermogenicx.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>www.thermogenicx.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Skype: ltt.invent</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>tmiles@trmiles.com</span></a>><br>To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <<a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:windowtext'>gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>><br>Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 9:18 am<br>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?</span><o:p></o:p></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_34cfce28-9a29-47fc-a6e1-19d7ad2ecc32"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I received in inquiry last week from someone looking for a microgrid scale gasifier to power four homes in a remote off-grid wooded area. What suppliers do we have for that scale? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>We have seen some reliable systems at a larger scale. All Power Labs (</span><a href="http://www.allpowerlabs.com/%29," target="_blank">http://www.allpowerlabs.com/),</a> Volter (volter.fi), Entrada (<a href="http://www.entrade.de/" target="_blank">http://www.entrade.de/</a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>) and Spanner (</span><a href="http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/company/102-spanner-re-2-company" target="_blank">http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/company/102-spanner-re-2-company</a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>) all seem to be selling refined units at the 20kWe+. Are there others? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Tom </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pete & Sheri<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 7:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <<a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hello Doug.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Re:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>“</span>It's a mute point drawing the low price of gasoline into our discussions”<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>A moot point?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I was only responding to your questioning the lack of traffic to this forum, not its mission.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Most people spend their discretionary time doing what seems most important to them, I think. When gasoline is USD$4.00 per gallon, the idea of developing or supporting cheaper alternatives rises higher towards the top of the to-do list.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Oh- maybe you did mean “mute” point. In either case, I won’t bring it up again.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Pete Stanaitis<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-----------------<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Doug<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 03, 2017 2:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Hi Pete,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>We are only as professional as our need to breath the same air. Because we all are at different levels of knowledge, none of us can know how to answer, or ask questions, due to the differing perspective of how our interests have "drawn us in". We all share that gasification has such promise for energy applications, so asking questions or providing answers is the reason this list was created.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Yes, there have been other groups form to discuss gasification, There are no short cuts to reliable gasifier performance, but information without scrutiny can only speak for itself. This Forum and it's extensive collection of related information, was the first to recognize the need for such discussions and become available to us all. There never has been any restriction on who participates, and some very good people have shared with us particularly in the earlier years.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>It's a mute point drawing the low price of gasoline into our discussions relating to an alternative for fossil fuels! It's not about the price, but availability which can change over night, and for me, that means being able to be self supporting in time of need. NZ has had a reported 32,000 quakes this last year, plus major storms that destroyed electrical distribution facilities. Are any of us really prepared for the inconvenience when, not if, it comes? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Doug Williams.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 03/01/17 12:21, Pete & Sheri wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hello Doug.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I view this list to be for the professional for the most part, so I hesitate to join in unless I have a question that I can clearly describe.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>But I think at least part of the reason for the lack of traffic is that there are now several other websites that cater to hobbyist and advanced tinkerer wood-to-electricity crowd:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>-Yahoo woodgas group,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>-Yahoo charcoal gasifier group</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>-Wayne Keith’s driveonwood.com website</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>-allpowerlabs.com</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>And I am sure there are many others.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>In addition (although I have been flamed for even mentioning it), gasoline for USD$2.00 per gallon does take the edge off for many people. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Pete Stanaitis</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>----------------</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>