[Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors

Thu Jul 28 06:58:41 CDT 2011

First, let me say you have amazing resilience, given all you've gone 
through.  It was hard enough living in my garage, and I had not gone 
through the loss of a fire.

What I meant was that I wouldn't tile, carpet or lay wood.  I'd strip or 
grind/polish with a new stain.  Your new concrete guy is a good one to 
ask about which is best, given the condition of the floor and the 
surface the floor has already had applied.  FWIW, we tried stuff in the 
walk in closet first to see, before using the process in the "open" 
areas.  If it were me, I'd try to grind and stain again, partially 
because I like the finish I get with the grinding, but it is messy.  
Also, there are many treatments that are meant to be applied over "old" 
concrete, so make certain your contractor lays out all the options.

I didn't mean to sound like it took months.  The entire process for all 
the redos took about 3 weeks. The area done was about 2200 sq feet, 
(including a sun space).  It was mid winter, in Ontario Canada, so we 
had to use electric heat and I was living in my garage.  It did seem 
forever, but it wasn't. My floor had cured, so my experience with the 
process may be different than yours.

I did find (as have visitors)  that the small cracks I have, when 
noticed, contribute to the overall look of stone...rather like fissures. 
We made the conscious decision to forego expansion joints and expected 
some cracking.

When I was selecting the finish, my guy directed me to 
http://www.concretenetwork.com  It's a great source of ideas and 
information.

Hope this helps.

Lynelle

On 27/07/2011 11:32 PM, Ktot (g) wrote:
> I'm not real clear what you're suggesting when you say you wouldn't 
> cover it with anything. You mean not anything but concrete stain or 
> grinding? Or you only recommend grinding?
>
> I have a contractor coming out next week with a grinding/polishing 
> company rep, as apparently the technique the contractor is familiar 
> with won't work in my house (he believes) but the rep says there's a 
> new technique that may work in my house. That said, I cannot go 
> through all the hassles and time your floors apparently took. I built 
> this new house after a total fire loss when I was out of state for 
> several weeks last year. The stress of moving to a new part of my 
> property (for better sun and wind, and more), getting not just a new 
> house built but also a new access road, well, septic, solar/wind, 
> etc., and undergoing a winter build in a very cold climate in the 
> mountains was more stress than I ever want to go through again. I 
> could not handle having to move out for several months, redoing the 
> floor several more times, etc.--as it sounds like might be required 
> with the grinding/polishing technique. As I mentioned in my original 
> post, I need flooring that 1) provides thermal mass, 2) is durable, 3) 
> works with radiant heat, 4) is easy to maintain, 5) will be relatively 
> easy to put in over the defective concrete, 6) fits in with the 
> contemporary/nature style of my house. (I realize this list doesn't 
> exactly match what I put in the first email.) So far only porcelain or 
> natural stone tile seems to fit the bill, but if anyone has any other 
> suggestions, please let me know. (I'm turning away from natural stone 
> as it apparently scratches and I have dogs, plus much of it is 
> irregular so may be hard to keep clean.)
>
> Also one additional thought: the master bedroom and bathroom don't 
> need thermal mass as they're on the north and west sides of the house 
> with minimal windows, so if anyone can recommend something that would 
> look good with tile elsewhere (if I go that route) and meet 
> requirements 2-6 above, let me know that as well. I've been thinking 
> of keeping everything the same material, but that probably isn't 
> really necessary.
>
> Or am I misunderstanding your comments, Lynelle?
>
> Regardless, I've seen a lot of porcelain tile patterns (in large 
> squares, not just 12x12) that look great on floors. And after my 
> concrete fiasco I tend to like the idea of knowing what I'll be 
> getting--though some of the tiles do come with tremendous variety in 
> their tiles.
>
> One other problem with concrete is finding a good contractor. I've met 
> with many, many and really am not impressed with most who are 
> interested in my job (a few live a couple or more hours away and don't 
> want to come this far)--for various reasons. In contrast, the tile 
> people seem to really know what they're doing. Or maybe I'm just too 
> skittish after the concrete fiasco. I had really trusted the couple I 
> went with, in part due to her creative/artistic bent. I haven't found 
> similar creativity/artistry in any of the other concrete people.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynelle Hamilton" 
> <lynelle at lahamilton.com>
> To: "Green Building" <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors
>
>
>> A few observations.  I also have concrete as my finished floor. They 
>> were not without problems in finishing, and I had a guy who was 
>> honourable and experienced with all aspects except mechanical 
>> polishing (at which he was new).
>>
>> First, there is a white undercoat that can be used here as a base 
>> coat over concrete to make for a lighter overall colour.   This type 
>> of finish has a coat of colour applied over it and then a sealer. The 
>> white undercoat is optional. My first set of concrete floors (in my 
>> last house) were finished without the white, but with the stain and 
>> sealer, then burnished.  We had to wait a minimum of 30 days to apply 
>> the stain , and that was in August. I certainly had colour variation 
>> (looked like an old leather bomber jacket), but no white whatsoever 
>> and no lifting of any stain or finish.
>>
>> In my current house, I opted for grinding/stain/sealer/mechanical 
>> polishing.  It yields an entirely different finish--sort of like the 
>> old granite stairs in my high school (not exactly a positive memory, 
>> but I got over it).  We had problems with the finish taking, even 
>> though we did the grinding and stain 3 months after the pour.  We had 
>> to grind the floors twice--once before the first stain and then again 
>> to take it off,  The second stain looked beautiful but was ruined by 
>> an overzealous burnishing (by the grinding machine company rep!).  We 
>> then followed what Jason suggested...stripped chemically and 
>> reapplied the stain and sealer.  The results are beautiful.  I had 
>> some minor fissures, but we filled these and they are not 
>> noticeable.  The grinding created a horrible mess here, but I did get 
>> through it and (now) would say it was worth the hassle.
>>
>> I'd do what you need to do to get rid of the current finish and start 
>> again.I wouldn't cover it with anything....you'll pay more and 
>> ultimately lose mass with anything but tile. If you're like me, the 
>> look of tile wouldn't cut it either.
>>
>> My 2 cents' worth (2.12 cents' worth American these days! ;-) )
>>
>> Lynelle
>>
>> On 27/07/2011 7:04 PM, Bob Klahn wrote:
>>> On 7/27/2011 6:34 PM, Ktot (g) wrote:
>>>> Also can you explain more about shot blasting? You say it's more 
>>>> cost-effective, but how does it compare to grinding as far as time 
>>>> involved, how much it's going to totally mess up my house, etc.?
>>>
>>> I don't deal with concrete much, but I do know that a variation of 
>>> shot-blasting, using small beads of frozen CO2 works wonders in 
>>> other kinds of abrasive cleaning.  Much the same as standard shot 
>>> blasting, albeit somewhat less abrasive, it has the advantage of 
>>> thermal abrasion and the pellets evaporate, reducing clean up.
>>>
>>> I can't say that it's applicable on concrete, but I'd be surprised 
>>> if ti didn't have some application.
>>>
>>> Bob Klahn
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> -- 
>> Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to 
>> reach me: lynelle at lahamilton.com
>>
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-- 
Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to reach 
me: lynelle at lahamilton.com