[Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors

Ktot (g) ktottotc at gmail.com
Thu Jul 28 10:39:18 CDT 2011 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lynelle Hamilton" <lynelle at lahamilton.com>
To: "Green Building" <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors


> First, let me say you have amazing resilience, given all you've gone 
> through.  It was hard enough living in my garage, and I had not gone 
> through the loss of a fire.

***Thank you. It actually got far worse. I've just gone through a "year from 
hell" but the other aspects have nothing to do with greenbuilding so I'll 
not elaborate on them here. That said, one has to just move forward. One of 
my comments to myself upon finding the fire results (by the way, my only 
nearby neighbors saw smoke 4-5 days and never had the brains to call 911; to 
make things worse they then blamed ME for their stupidity!) was I needed to 
look at this as an opportunity to have the home I really wanted (in spite of 
the fact that I'd lost everything, including irreplaceable things of course, 
and that no way did my insurance cover even half of the rebuild), and I 
could not let the fire destroy me, my health, along with my home. That's 
been my attitude from the start and I will say the new home is pretty 
fantastic (except the floors)--though I really won't be able to test things 
like the solar thermal radiant and passive solar until next winter when I 
get sub-zero temps--and I definitely wouldn't want anyone to go through the 
challenges and problems I've gone through this past year.
>
> What I meant was that I wouldn't tile, carpet or lay wood.  I'd strip or 
> grind/polish with a new stain.  Your new concrete guy is a good one to ask 
> about which is best, given the condition of the floor and the surface the 
> floor has already had applied.  FWIW, we tried stuff in the walk in closet 
> first to see, before using the process in the "open" areas.  If it were 
> me, I'd try to grind and stain again, partially because I like the finish 
> I get with the grinding, but it is messy.  Also, there are many treatments 
> that are meant to be applied over "old" concrete, so make certain your 
> contractor lays out all the options.

***You refer to my new concrete guy. Problem is I haven't found one I like, 
one who I feel is truly knowledgeable and also creative enough to give me 
beautiful floors.
>
> I didn't mean to sound like it took months.  The entire process for all 
> the redos took about 3 weeks. The area done was about 2200 sq feet, 
> (including a sun space).  It was mid winter, in Ontario Canada, so we had 
> to use electric heat and I was living in my garage.  It did seem forever, 
> but it wasn't. My floor had cured, so my experience with the process may 
> be different than yours.

***The sealer person told me once the sealer is removed, I only need to 
allow a few days for any of the moisture to dry out, and I had figured about 
three weeks start to finish for the redo, so it does sounds somewhat in line 
with your process.
>
> I did find (as have visitors)  that the small cracks I have, when noticed, 
> contribute to the overall look of stone...rather like fissures. We made 
> the conscious decision to forego expansion joints and expected some 
> cracking.

***For what it's worth, I've found expansion joints are a waste of time. I 
have horrible deep/wide cracking right where the expansion cuts were made, 
and those cuts were not filled with anything so they're ugly (and not even) 
and trap everything possible. Being a brand new house, and the main floor 
over a garage and basement, I understand settling, but if I'd known I'd get 
such horrible cracking I'd have foregone the expansion joints anyway. Mine 
are not small like yours and do not contribute to the look--just to the 
ugliness.
>
> When I was selecting the finish, my guy directed me to 
> http://www.concretenetwork.com  It's a great source of ideas and 
> information.

***Will check it out.
>
> Hope this helps.

***All information is useful. Thank you.
>
> Lynelle
>
> On 27/07/2011 11:32 PM, Ktot (g) wrote:
>> I'm not real clear what you're suggesting when you say you wouldn't cover 
>> it with anything. You mean not anything but concrete stain or grinding? 
>> Or you only recommend grinding?
>>
>> I have a contractor coming out next week with a grinding/polishing 
>> company rep, as apparently the technique the contractor is familiar with 
>> won't work in my house (he believes) but the rep says there's a new 
>> technique that may work in my house. That said, I cannot go through all 
>> the hassles and time your floors apparently took. I built this new house 
>> after a total fire loss when I was out of state for several weeks last 
>> year. The stress of moving to a new part of my property (for better sun 
>> and wind, and more), getting not just a new house built but also a new 
>> access road, well, septic, solar/wind, etc., and undergoing a winter 
>> build in a very cold climate in the mountains was more stress than I ever 
>> want to go through again. I could not handle having to move out for 
>> several months, redoing the floor several more times, etc.--as it sounds 
>> like might be required with the grinding/polishing technique. As I 
>> mentioned in my original post, I need flooring that 1) provides thermal 
>> mass, 2) is durable, 3) works with radiant heat, 4) is easy to maintain, 
>> 5) will be relatively easy to put in over the defective concrete, 6) fits 
>> in with the contemporary/nature style of my house. (I realize this list 
>> doesn't exactly match what I put in the first email.) So far only 
>> porcelain or natural stone tile seems to fit the bill, but if anyone has 
>> any other suggestions, please let me know. (I'm turning away from natural 
>> stone as it apparently scratches and I have dogs, plus much of it is 
>> irregular so may be hard to keep clean.)
>>
>> Also one additional thought: the master bedroom and bathroom don't need 
>> thermal mass as they're on the north and west sides of the house with 
>> minimal windows, so if anyone can recommend something that would look 
>> good with tile elsewhere (if I go that route) and meet requirements 2-6 
>> above, let me know that as well. I've been thinking of keeping everything 
>> the same material, but that probably isn't really necessary.
>>
>> Or am I misunderstanding your comments, Lynelle?
>>
>> Regardless, I've seen a lot of porcelain tile patterns (in large squares, 
>> not just 12x12) that look great on floors. And after my concrete fiasco I 
>> tend to like the idea of knowing what I'll be getting--though some of the 
>> tiles do come with tremendous variety in their tiles.
>>
>> One other problem with concrete is finding a good contractor. I've met 
>> with many, many and really am not impressed with most who are interested 
>> in my job (a few live a couple or more hours away and don't want to come 
>> this far)--for various reasons. In contrast, the tile people seem to 
>> really know what they're doing. Or maybe I'm just too skittish after the 
>> concrete fiasco. I had really trusted the couple I went with, in part due 
>> to her creative/artistic bent. I haven't found similar 
>> creativity/artistry in any of the other concrete people.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynelle Hamilton" 
>> <lynelle at lahamilton.com>
>> To: "Green Building" <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors
>>
>>
>>> A few observations.  I also have concrete as my finished floor. They 
>>> were not without problems in finishing, and I had a guy who was 
>>> honourable and experienced with all aspects except mechanical polishing 
>>> (at which he was new).
>>>
>>> First, there is a white undercoat that can be used here as a base coat 
>>> over concrete to make for a lighter overall colour.   This type of 
>>> finish has a coat of colour applied over it and then a sealer. The white 
>>> undercoat is optional. My first set of concrete floors (in my last 
>>> house) were finished without the white, but with the stain and sealer, 
>>> then burnished.  We had to wait a minimum of 30 days to apply the stain 
>>> , and that was in August. I certainly had colour variation (looked like 
>>> an old leather bomber jacket), but no white whatsoever and no lifting of 
>>> any stain or finish.
>>>
>>> In my current house, I opted for grinding/stain/sealer/mechanical 
>>> polishing.  It yields an entirely different finish--sort of like the old 
>>> granite stairs in my high school (not exactly a positive memory, but I 
>>> got over it).  We had problems with the finish taking, even though we 
>>> did the grinding and stain 3 months after the pour.  We had to grind the 
>>> floors twice--once before the first stain and then again to take it off, 
>>> The second stain looked beautiful but was ruined by an overzealous 
>>> burnishing (by the grinding machine company rep!).  We then followed 
>>> what Jason suggested...stripped chemically and reapplied the stain and 
>>> sealer.  The results are beautiful.  I had some minor fissures, but we 
>>> filled these and they are not noticeable.  The grinding created a 
>>> horrible mess here, but I did get through it and (now) would say it was 
>>> worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I'd do what you need to do to get rid of the current finish and start 
>>> again.I wouldn't cover it with anything....you'll pay more and 
>>> ultimately lose mass with anything but tile. If you're like me, the look 
>>> of tile wouldn't cut it either.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents' worth (2.12 cents' worth American these days! ;-) )
>>>
>>> Lynelle
>>>
>>> On 27/07/2011 7:04 PM, Bob Klahn wrote:
>>>> On 7/27/2011 6:34 PM, Ktot (g) wrote:
>>>>> Also can you explain more about shot blasting? You say it's more 
>>>>> cost-effective, but how does it compare to grinding as far as time 
>>>>> involved, how much it's going to totally mess up my house, etc.?
>>>>
>>>> I don't deal with concrete much, but I do know that a variation of 
>>>> shot-blasting, using small beads of frozen CO2 works wonders in other 
>>>> kinds of abrasive cleaning.  Much the same as standard shot blasting, 
>>>> albeit somewhat less abrasive, it has the advantage of thermal abrasion 
>>>> and the pellets evaporate, reducing clean up.
>>>>
>>>> I can't say that it's applicable on concrete, but I'd be surprised if 
>>>> ti didn't have some application.
>>>>
>>>> Bob Klahn
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to reach 
>>> me: lynelle at lahamilton.com
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to reach 
> me: lynelle at lahamilton.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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