[Greenbuilding] Quartz Infrared Heaters

Thu Sep 22 12:30:34 CDT 2011

This is off-topic and I have reposted a follow-up re: quartz heaters.

My last comment on the topic of thermodynamics.  My point is that there are
devices that can add more heat to your house than they use in electricity.
 True, quartz heaters are not one of those.

Air conditioners/heat pumps MOVE heat.  For a heat pump with a COP of 2
every kilowatt hour of electricity moves 2 kilowatt hour of heat energy.
No extra heat beyond the waste heat from compressors and motors.  The 2
kilowatt hour of heat is MOVED from one place to another.

---- Steve (KZ6LSD)

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Bob Waldrop <bwaldrop at cox.net> wrote:

>   But where’s the extra heat coming from with one of these heaters in a
> box? the advertising is implying that by using this device you are somehow
> making a profit on the energy input. I don’t see it.
>
> Bob waldrop, OKC
>
>
>  *From:* Steven Tjiang <steve at tjiang.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:08 PM
> *To:* Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Greenbuilding] Quartz Infrared Heaters
>
> The conservation of energy (i.e. 1st law of thermodynamics) applies to
> closed systems.  It is very easy to MOVE much more than 1 kwh of heat from
> one place to another using 1 kwh of electrical energy.  Happens all the
> time.
>
>  ---- Steve (KZ6LSD)
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Bob Waldrop <bwaldrop at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I am not an expert on electrical heating devices, but the laws of
>> thermodynamics dictate that it is physically impossible to get more than 1
>> kwh of heat out of 1 kwh of electrical energy.  in fact, the amount of heat
>> will always be less than the amount of energy expended, whether we are
>> talking electricity, natural gas, wood, propane, whatever.  You can't make a
>> profit, you can't break even, you can't get out of the game.
>>
>> Bob Waldrop, firmly devoted to obeying the laws of thermodynamics, all the
>> time, everywhere,
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kat
>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:48 AM
>> To: Green Building
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Quartz Infrared Heaters
>>
>> And if that "someone" would maybe possibly be willing to explain to the
>> rest of us MATH-FREE? ;-)
>>
>> -Kat
>>
>> On 9/22/2011 8:00 AM, elitalking wrote:
>>
>>> Corwyn writes: For heating areas, or people?
>>>
>>>
>>> My comment:
>>>
>>> This is for heating people.  However, I do not understand how it works.
>>> A radiant infrared lamp directed at an occupant will deliver heat to the
>>> body without heating up the whole space.  However, in this device, the lamp
>>> is inside a box that includes a fan to distribute the heat convectively.
>>> The box is warm to the touch, but not hot like a woodstove. My guess is that
>>> a lamp is used to heat up copper plates and a fan blows this heat to deliver
>>> to space.  Therefore the heat is not radiantly delivered to occupant.  I do
>>> not understand why 1kwh electricity would produce more heat the 1kwh of
>>> heat.  I know someone on this list does understand these devices.  I hope
>>> you are willing to explain it to the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Eli
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corwyn" <corwyn at midcoast.com>
>>> To: "Green Building" <greenbuilding at lists.**bioenergylists.org<greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> >
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Quartz Infrared Heaters
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/19/2011 4:00 PM, elitalking wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do people on the list have experience and opinions about Quartz
>>>>> Infrared
>>>>> Heaters such as Edenpure? Are these better than heat element heaters
>>>>> for
>>>>> small heat required situations?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For heating areas, or people?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Kindly,
>>>>
>>>> Corwyn
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Topher Belknap
>>>> Green Fret Consulting
>>>> Kermit didn't know the half of it...
>>>> http://www.greenfret.com/
>>>> topher at greenfret.com
>>>> (207) 882-7652 <%28207%29%20882-7652>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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