[Greenbuilding] Nyle Geyser HPWH - Preliminary Results (was HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER)

[Carmine Vasile]

Rob: About 17 years ago, Virginia Power hired a "numbernurd" (as Corwyn refers to engineers) to measure the Energy Factor of a HPWH and compare it to the COP of its heat pump. They ran identical tests using three types of tank-type, electric water heaters then compared the performance with a GFX Model G3-60 replacing the HPWH. 
   http://gfxtechnology.com/tests.html has links to 1996 reports and tabulated test results, along with results for a tankless, on-demand heater. 
    Had they tested the HPWH with the GFX the EF would have been close to the heat pump's COP because the HPWH's resistive would not have been energized during long hot water draws to simulate residential showers. 
    But that configuration was not evaluated.
Best regards,
Dr. Carmine F. Vasile
http://gfxtechnology.com
631-291-5147
  
_______________


From: rob.vadurro at state.nm.us

To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:42:05 +0000

Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Nyle Geyser HPWH - Preliminary Results (was HEAT
PUMP WATER HEATER)



Probably with the water- down the drain.



Rob Vadurro, AIA

Park Architect

New Mexico State Parks

1220 south Saint Francis Drive

Santa Fe, NM 87505

505-476-3383

505-476-3361 fax





-----Original Message-----

From: Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Eldridge

Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:29 PM

To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org

Subject: [Greenbuilding] Nyle Geyser HPWH - Preliminary Results (was HEAT PUMP
WATER HEATER)



I'm not sure I follow. You say that 10 kWh are taken away from the living space
and  injected into the water heater.
Check, got it.



And that we require 4.35 kWh of electricity to accomplish this task. 

Roger that.



Now here's where you lose me: "Much of that 4.35 kWh ends up as heat from
the machine which might end up back in the living space (or not). 

How much isn't clear, but it seems unlikely it is ALL of it."



OK, if it didn't go into the living space, where exactly did it go? It couldn't
have gone into the tank because we've already accounted for those 10 kWh. It
seems to me that we're up against that "neither created nor
destroyed" thing-o-bobby, n'est-ce pas?



So, in the scenario that I described earlier, have I or have I not
theoretically consumed 6.44 kWh to satisfy that 10 kWh of DHW demand and
maintained the conditioned space at its set temperature? If I'm my logic is
faulty or my calculations are incorrect then, by all means, let's set the
record straight.



Cheers,

Paul

 


_______________
 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:51:14 -0400
 From: corwyn at midcoast.com
 To: archilogic at chaffyahoo.ca; greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
 Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [proprietary product name <snipped>] (was HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER)
 
 On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, RT wrote:
 
...If sucking the heat out of the living space is problematic, and it is. then maybe you park it in a small space that is thermally isolated from  the living space where the heat-sucking capacity is beneficial ... and that sounds pretty much like a fridge.
   I'll leave it to a numbernerd (meant in the nicest way of course) to do  the arithmetic to determine whether the "fridge" is a beer cooler capacity-sized space or a root cellar capacity-sized space. 
   If your hot water needs are 15 kBTUs per person, and your root cellar is actually insulated, you are talking about a pretty large space.  That same 15 kBTUs are being pulled from your basement and made up for by your furnace, if the unit sits there.
   But, of course, putting a heat pump in a cold root cellar reduces the efficiency of the heat pump.  And now you need to control for two temperatures.
TANSTAAFL.
 
Thank You Kindly,
 Corwyn
 
Topher Belknap
Green Fret Consulting
Kermit didn't know the half of it...
www.greenfret.com/
topher at greenfret.com
(207) 882-7652

 		 	   		  
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