[Greenbuilding] Passive solar home--concrete overlay re thermal mass

[KTOT (g)]

I do not understand your paragraph, Peter Kidd. Can you please clarify? I understand your comment about new world of compact insulation solutions—you’re saying different layers wouldn’t lessen thermal mass as if they did, all insulation would be layers of differing materials, I believe—but I still haven’t found an answer to my question about the modified acrylic latex resin in the overlay product.

Re thermal mass, every book and article I’ve read identifies good thermal mass materials being clay, concrete, water, stone—and that’s pretty much it (ceramic tile being clay, adobe being clay, etc.) If you don’t like the earth materials definition, what is the definition of high thermal mass materials? How are they defined scientifically, chemically, mathematically, or in whatever way, but a very exact, precise way? I need technical details on this.

No, I am not at all wondering if adding a second layer may cause problems. I am quite sure. But I have to have hard factual data to present to the other side to get them to pay for a total redo of the floor.

From: Peter Kidd 
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:35 PM
To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org 
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Passive solar home--concrete overlay re thermal mass

Between different materials! Is it anyone's experience that simply layering materials achieves significant resistance to heat loss? (that's not the same as "wear layers") If that works we have a new world of compact insulation solutions ahead of us. The followup comment about tile or other "overlays" versus an intimately bonded new layer was about there being no air gap or other materials to add a little resistance in the latter case. And earth vs non-earth, that is a philosophical choice not an issue of "thermal mass". Am I correctly recalling that the original "slab" was two inches as well? It is seriously cracked, and you are wondering if adding a second relatively thin, apparently (also?) un-reinforced layer may cause problems. What is under the current concrete layer?



On 13-05-13 10:06 AM, Vadurro, Rob, EMNRD wrote:

  I believe the concern is the transfer of heat between different materials. I can’t remember where I saw it, but there was a table showing the transferring heat between base and finish materials, say tile to concrete slab below in passive solar conditions and the rate of transfer was much less than one might think. The joint between the two impeded the heat transfer, in other words. I would think an acrylic additive may impede the transfer even more. The best is always to not cover the slab, only color it, if heat retention in the slab is the goal.

   

  Rob Vadurro, AIA

  Park Architect

  New Mexico State Parks

  1220 South Saint Francis Drive

  Santa Fe, NM 87505

  505-476-3383

  505-476-3361 fax

   

  From: Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Topher
  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:39 AM
  To: Green Building
  Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Passive solar home--concrete overlay re thermal mass

   

  On 5/13/2013 1:07 AM, KTOT (g) wrote:

    Does anyone have experience or knowledge about this? Using or not using a concrete overlay product for the top layer of a floor for thermal mass, vs. a plain darkly stained concrete slab 


  A concrete overlay product is likely to be roughly similar in thermal characteristics to a concrete slab.  Meaning that you will just have a thicker thermal mass.  It seems unlikely that you should be worried about too much thermal mass in a passive solar house.  The overlay product might have a lower specific heat, or conductivity, wither of which will reduce it's effectiveness somewhat.  Remember to stick with a dark color.

  Thank You Kindly,

  Corwyn



-- Topher BelknapGreen Fret ConsultingKermit didn't know the half of it...http://www.GreenFret.com/topher@greenfret.com
   

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