[Greenbuilding] Nyle heat pump water heater update

[Reuben Deumling]

For some reason the Germans have great colloquialisms to describe this kind
of convoluted logic: 'Von hinten durch die Brust ins Auge' - 'from behind
through the chest into the eye' being my favorite.*

And all of this just to heat up some water molecules. The fact that Gallium
Arsenide, Indium, and all the other tasty materials that are incorporated
into those devices are still relatively cheap is not really a fair measure
of their social or total cost, or whether in ten years we will still be
able to afford either the constituent materials or the vast infrastructures
necessary to produce them at any price when the version we buy today wears
out.

I also seem to recall a rather lively and extensive discussion on this very
list about Mr. Holladay's thoughts on PV+electric water heating a year or
so back.

*http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=199570




On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 9:44 PM, <kaze0010 at umn.edu> wrote:

> On May 23 2013, Reuben Deumling wrote:
>
>  On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Nick Pyner <npyner at tig.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Resistance heater 4.9
>>> heat exchanger     2.1
>>>
>>>
>> Oh, I thought those thingies worked without external input of energy. Must
>> be Carmine's device that does that.
>>
>>
>>>    I submit you will never know how well anything works unless you
> compare it
>
>> to the usage.
>>>
>>>
>> But I'm less interested in the device all by itself; I'm interested in the
>> real world performance with all the particulars. If someone manages to get
>> by on 1/14th of a gallon of propane/day to heat his water in a sidearm
>> water heater I want to know about it. I care far less that the 8 gallons
>> of
>> hot water he uses isn't normed. Besides if we know both the water and
>> energy usage the differences in use rates can be zeroed out.
>>
>>    An electric resistance heater has such a low installed cost it can be
> made
>
>> to beat a solar system any time. All one has to do is shower once a week.
>>>
>>   An electric resistance heater is an anethema to me but, right now, I am
> in
>   the process of installing a new one. One of the reasons for this is that
> I
>
>> could well be dead before a solar system is amortised.
>>>
>>>
>> It seems you are ranking these according to first cost or at least a money
>> scale. I would think a different (energy) scale might be more appropriate.
>>
>
> The concepts Martin Holladay outlines in this article give an additional
> perspective on electrical resistance heating that is sure to raise some
> eyebrows. "It’s now cheaper to use a photovoltaic system to heat domestic
> hot water" (at least in some situations).
> http://www.**greenbuildingadvisor.com/**blogs/dept/musings/solar-**
> thermal-dead<http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/solar-thermal-dead>
>
> I think a similar argument can be made regarding certain home insulation
> retrofits vs applying the same funds to an low temperature capable air
> source heat pump and more solar PV.
>
> Low module prices, even for quality modules from Kyocera or SolarWorld,
> really make a difference in what makes sense. Probably the most ironic
> piece in the whole water heating thing is the disconnect in using a piece
> of high tech electronics (solar module) and an inverter to run a low tech
> resistance element. (The inverter might be cut out of the picture, but then
> you may run into the power control issues related to switching high voltage
> DC.)
>
>
>
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