[Greenbuilding] Visible Flames (Fireplaces) in Tight Houses

[Clarke Olsen]

Dedicated outside air, a tall, insulated chimney, preferably through the peak of the roof, a tight opening to flue ratio, and a tight damper. For a wood burning fireplace,
follow Rumford's rules.
Clarke Olsen
clarkeolsendesign.com
373 route 203
Spencertown, NY 12165 
USA
518-392-4640
colsen at taconic.net




On Dec 5, 2014, at 3:32 AM, John Daglish <johndaglish at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not sure if something like this is available in the US.
> 
> A double walled stainless steel flue with an interior insulated flue being  for the smoke/fumes and the outer annular space for the air intake/preheat of the combustion air.  Gas through the wall flues use this technique.  see p 8
> http://www.poujoulat.fr/media/Avis-Technique-CSTB-Efficience-14-12-1818.pdf
> 
> regards
> 
> John Daglish
> Paris, France
> 
> 
> 
> 2014-12-03 15:43 GMT+01:00 <conservationarchitect at rockbridge.net>:
> Alan
>  
> How tight were the openings into this closed loop fireplace?  This may be acceptable to my client.   .6ach at 50pa is impressive with these handicaps.  What would your recommendation for interior cloths dryer be?
>  
> As an alternative to the insulated chase, could you define a space up to a triple wall chimney that has the specified clearance to combustible material filled with non combustible insulation such as vermiculite. 
>  
> Thanks
> Eli
>  
>  
> From: Alan Abrams
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 2:17 PM
> To: Green Building
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Visible Flames (Fireplaces) in Tight Houses
>  
> in a recent project for other pyrophilic clients, (and despite all my hand wringing to them) I spec'd a wood stove by Napoleon: http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/products/nz26-zero-clearance-and-masonry-fireplace/
>  
> even with that gratuitous feature (and a conventional clothes drier) the house came in below 0.6 ACH at 50 PA. One nice feature is that the stove has provision to route air heated within its jacket to remote locations, so the occupants don't collapse from heat prostration while it's in use. In the subject case, hot air was ducted to a point adjacent to the heat pump return (direct connect is prohibited by the mnfr)
>  
> one thing to bear in mind is that the length of the flue, even with a roof top damper, represents an ambient or near ambient condition. applying insulation directly against the flue is prohibited, so an insulated chase was provided instead.
>  
> -AA
> 
>  
> Alan Abrams
> certified professional building designer, AIBD
> certified passive house consultant, PHIUS
> certified passive house builder, PHIUS
> cell     202-437-8583
> alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
> HELICON WORKS Achitecture and Education
>  
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM, <conservationarchitect at rockbridge.net> wrote:
> I intend to build only high standard thermal envelopes.  I have a client that expresses interest in this except she wants a fireplace.  Ugh!  I am looking for ways for her to see an open flame that will not compromise the benefit  of a high standard thermal envelope.  I have suggested an outdoor air fed wood stove with a glass door.  This could be installed to look like a traditional fireplace.  She has expressed interest in unvented gas fireplace, Ugh again!  I certainly do not want CO being introduced by design into a tight thermal envelope.  Increasing ventilation rates would be required.  I am wondering if a vented gas fireplace that has outdoor air feed would be acceptable.  I am wondering if others on this list have managed clients with the expectation of seeing a flame in a tight thermal envelope. 
>  
> I am beginning my career as a contractor.  My intention is to sale predesigned homes that incorporate the high standard thermal envelope with my details so my client and I know what the cost is up front.  To do this, I am limiting what I will offer.  This is one reason I am moving away from my previous custom design architect model where you must involve your client in all decisions to build there dream building.  To achieve high energy performance buildings, multiple systems need to be complimentary.  This is why I want to sale a package that achieves this.  I am wanting to control these choices.  Sometimes that means turning down projects. 
>  
> Eli
> 
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> -- 
> John Daglish
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