[Greenbuilding] New Type of Chipboard

John Salmen terrain at shaw.ca
Mon Sep 22 09:44:40 CDT 2014


Hi, was sure I’ve ranted about cellulose before.  The reason I call it stupid is that is was a stupid use of newsprint. It became popular in the 70’s after the first oil crisis for horizontal application – basically localized backyard operations. At that point very little newsprint was being recycled. Took about a decade for the insulation it to gain approvals for vertical application and to meet fire standards etc. – at which point it became a viable large commercial industry which is only viable when it has a steady supply of resources - essentially sucking up all the recyclable newsprint.

 

Newsprint and paper can be recycled to make new paper something like 7-9 times before the fibres loose quality. Virgin pulp production has not only been the major cause of deforestation but with the chemicals used and the energy used is the 3rd largest polluter and the 5th largest energy consumer.

 

There is a subsequent energy factor in the production of cellulose (wetting, drying, fluffing) as well as in the production of borates (about 30% of the content) and latex binders. Another issue is density, settlement, dust, etc.

 

So we think cellulose is exempt from many env concerns because it is recycled but in removing recyclable paper from the paper stream inherits the cfc pollution and other concerns from that industry.

 

Now wool is still a raw material that is being landfilled in NA in huge quantities and at a per lb price that is less than the raw material cost for most insulation....

 

John

 

 

From: Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Alan Abrams
Sent: September-21-14 1:46 PM
To: Green Building
Cc: Topher Belknap
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] New Type of Chipboard

 

<Look at cellulose insulation - a stupid product >

John- that is the first time I've heard a serious criticism of cellulose insulation. I thought it was heroic on my part, to wean myself from foam, and instead to use chopped up George Will columns. What ho?

 

-AA




Alan Abrams
certified professional building designer, AIBD
certified passive house consultant, PHIUS

certified passive house builder, PHIUS
cell     202-437-8583
 <mailto:alan at abramsdesignbuild.com> alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
HELICON WORKS  <http://www.heliconworks.com/index2.html> Achitecture and Education

 

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:56 PM, John Salmen <terrain at shaw.ca> wrote:

I like the 'minimal surplus' ratio and would only say that rather than doing
things wrong we have no clue as to what 'right' is. In the 50's the US
established something called T values for soil erosion - giving permission
for farmers (agribusiness) to be right or not wrong if erosion was something
like .5 to 1mm roughly. They (whoever that is) now puts conventional agri
soil loss at 1mm/yr globally (wherever that is). The question really is what
makes and sustains soil. The only models are native vegetation and one of
the terms applied is 'geologic erosion rate' - being the rate that the decay
of native vegetation matches the rate at which the soil erodes. In the PNW I
think that is now considered to be about 100% i.e. no surplus. I have 50
year old fir trees falling over indiscriminately in my woods because there
is no soil to support them. I have left them in the lying down status.

Can we make engineered building products from corn - sure why not - will it
succeed - probably not in the short term as we already have a huge industry
grinding up quick growing trees and it takes a decade or so for an industry
to develop and few more decades to be supplanted. Look at cellulose
insulation - a stupid product that has consumed far too many resources but
once it became a product the resources were dedicated to it. Same with
engineered wood.

The problem still is scale. I think the average house size in NA is around
2500 sq. ft. which is about 1000 sq. ft. too much for the average family
size. That is where the trees or corn are going. Ironically people are also
consuming about the same ration of calories more than are needed (corn, corn
fed beef?) - which is also soil loss.

I am now using engineered wood extensively in structures as well as metal -
whatever does the work with the least material. I am at the point where if a
client wants to see wood - I can recommend taking a hike in what are left of
our forests.




-----Original Message-----
From: Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
On Behalf Of Topher
Sent: September-20-14 3:42 PM
To: archilogic at yahoo.ca; Green Building
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] New Type of Chipboard

On 9/18/2014 9:31 AM, RT wrote:
> So, in addition to depleting nitrogen from the soil (nitrogen being
> essential to leafy vegetative growth), the long decomposition time of
> the very coarse debris hinders planting of the next growing season's crop.

My understanding is that this should be phrased as 'binding up nitrogen
during the decomposition'.  In other words, decomposing woody materials
requires nitrogen in the process, but that nitrogen eventually becomes
available to plants again, it isn't lost (to the atmosphere, for example).

That said, soil chemistry and biology is incredibly complex, and we
generally appear to be doing almost completely wrong.

The basic take away is that removing ANY organic materials from the
biological cycle, beyond a minimal surplus*, is going to reduce the efficacy
of the system.

* - Minimal surplus can be guesstimated at 1/1Millionth of yearly production
(calculated from our current usage of fossil fuels at the rate of a million
years of production per year).

Thank You Kindly,

Topher

--
Topher Belknap
Green Fret Consulting
Kermit didn't know the half of it...
http://www.GreenFret.com/
topher at greenfret.com

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