[Greenbuilding] Alternatives to Copper Green

Tue Aug 2 09:21:55 CDT 2016

I have made decks of locust which are holding up pretty well, though clearly not forever. 
1) Some inert barrier (metal, plastic, tar..) between wood parts.
2) Fastening from below, not holes in surface.
3) Treat the ends.
Clarke Olsen
clarkeolsendesign.com
373 route 203
Spencertown, NY 12165 
USA
518-392-4640
colsen at taconic.net

On Aug 2, 2016, at 1:25 AM, John Salmen <terrain at shaw.ca> wrote:

> What is the question or more specifically what is the problem or what do you want. Decks can be made out of whatever you want – steel/aluminum/plastic/concrete/wood/PT wood.
>  
> How long do you want it to last?
> What do you want it to cost?
> What do you want it to look like?
> Do you want it friendly for kids/pets/soil/yourself?
>  
> And then a reality check. Do PT woods last? How much longer? And where does all that preservative go? Do the homework.
>  
> Concrete works – I have a 25 year old project concrete deck elevated 4’ off the ground that is 1.5” of concrete exposed aggregate deck with 4x6 integrated concrete beams at 6’ span with 6x6 concrete posts extending 3’6 above the deck with cedar railings extending between. The cedar railings are starting to show their age – but the deck is fine. The concrete work at that point was equivalent in cost to a solid wood deck – but has required no refinishing and has aged nicely.
>  
> Sure it took some effort to design and engineer – but isn’t that what alternatives are about?
>  
> I have a project 3 level  1.5” coloured concrete deck poured on existing wood 2x framing with concrete stair treads that is now 15 years old at a commercial facility. That was a replacement for decking that lasted less than 10 years. Colouring has faded a little but has heavy use and still looks good as this kind of thing ages well. A patina.
>  
> Plastic decks I am not as personally fond of as they go on looking like plastic and just don’t age in the same way as an aesthetic – but work and are durable. They can be painted but then you are locked into the refinishing/maintenance material waste every 5 years or so.
>  
> There are a large variety of new composite materials that decks can be made of that have good longevity before needing refinishing or renewal (steel/aluminum type panels).
>  
> I tend to avoid decking in designs – figuring that if people want to be outside they should be on the ground. If I have to do exterior stairs I will look at any alternatives to wood that have some kind of integrity and recyclability - leave the wood in the woods (steel, glass, precast). In multilevel designs I will look at some kind of pre-manufactured component that is not a tree fibre.
>  
> Wood decks can last if designed well – even with crappy plantation wood but the culprit is the refinishing as it is gallons of material that just erodes into the environment on a 5 year renewal.
>  
> So yes – for real – design is about what you want to live with/afford. Green design is about what you want to live with/afford and what we try and figure out as a better criteria.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Antonioli Dan
> Sent: August-01-16 8:07 PM
> To: Green Building
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Alternatives to Copper Green
>  
> Plastic and concrete as alternatives to PT wood?
>  
> For real?
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Aug 1, 2016, at 7:53 PM, John Salmen <terrain at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
> 
> I’ve done decks with plastic lumber and detailed plastic lumber for sills, shower framing and other potentially non-wood friendly locations. Bit disgusting as a deck as it tends to both ‘wilt’ under sunlight and have a that garbage bag odour. Its not copper arsenic which is just kind of primitive at this point.
>  
> Sodium silicate lumber works – but disappeared off the market. Elevated concrete decks have worked really well for me as well. I have 3 concrete deck projects that have hit the 20 yr mark (typically 2-3 wood deck replacements).
>  
>  
>  
> From: Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Antonioli Dan
> Sent: August-01-16 6:36 PM
> To: Green Building
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Alternatives to Copper Green
>  
> Tim, 
>  
> I remember this kind of conversation with you a few years back. Once again I suggest you get some field experience to back-up your claims/suggestions/advice because you’ll be super effective as an activist once you know how the rubber…or plastic…hits the road. 
>  
> I know of no plastic products you suggest that will take the place of PT in the deck application I’m bringing up. Yes there are alternatives…..scuba diving into our rivers looking for old-growth redwood, hauling it to your land, milling it, building with it…..
>  
> ….buying full dimensional and VERY expensive salvage logged fir and pine from a third-generation family run mill two hours North of here. 
>  
> Or buying “FSC certified” wood from Home Depot to support MRC and “the family” and build with that. 
>  
> Come out here and build us a deck just the way you like it. I might even pay for your airfare. 
>  
> Dan
>  
>  
>  
> On Aug 1, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Tim Keating <t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. In which case, there are only one or two alternatives that most folks would consider economical enough. But I always at least mention recycled plastic lumber as the most ecological, if someone was interested in durability and sustainability over cost. Most homeowners are interested in materials that will last 200 years, when 25 years will suffice (in their minds).
> 
> Tim
> 
>  
> On 7/29/16 12:36 PM, Antonioli Dan wrote:
> Tim, the PT isn’t the “decking” it’s the frame that supports it. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Tim Keating <t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the answer would be (have been?) to not use pressure-treated wood for the deck. There are a lot of greener options for decking that don’t involve any chemical preservatives.
> 
> Tim
> 
>  
> On 7/27/16 6:30 PM, Antonioli Dan wrote:
> I have a deck project coming up that will require the use of copper green to treat the cut ends of pressure-treated wood. 
>  
> I was hoping to find a viable alternative to copper green but am not coming up with much, and nothing from our local lumber yards that proudly advertise themselves as committed to green building and green products. They carry some green products but for the most part are not very green, and my inquires about wood treatment have not resulted in anything other than conventional knowledge. 
>  
> Any products anyone has used with good results? I have a respirator and latex gloves and will use copper green if necessary, but I’d like to think that by now we’d have a viable alternative to PT!
>  
> Dan
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