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<TITLE>Re: [Greenbuilding] FINISHES for MDF vs Particleboard vs Whatever</TITLE>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Good post, John.<BR>
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Pure Tung Oil is our #1 finish for butcher blocks b/c it’s durable and safe and easy to refinish. Reasonably easy to use but can get tricky among those with more thumbs than fingers. We also recommend AFM Naturals Oil Wax finish, which is a combo of tung, linseed, safflower, sunflower, carnauba, microcrystalline wax, soybean oil, and hemp oil. Very easy to apply. This is popular with our cork and bamboo tops.<BR>
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We find most people don’t like linseed’s odor so avoid linseed oil.<BR>
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I also find it critical to set people-folk’s expectations of different materials—especially butcher blocks. We make a point to explain that you put a wood counter in specifically with the expectation that it’ll dry out and need refinishing (moisturizing), which also lends to repairability—rare among tops—and the warm, soft, natural looks.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:9pt'><B>Jason Holstine<BR>
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Amicus Green Building Center<BR>
“Sustain Your Space”<BR>
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On 10/25/10 12:20 PM, "JOHN SALMEN" <<a href="terrain@shaw.ca">terrain@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'>Tung oil is the hardest drying oil out there and can be purchased and used as a raw ‘pure’ product. Though it is marketed (lee valley) as a food safe (pure oil only) technically it is still a toxic substance until it has reacted sufficiently with oxygen and sunlight to cure (about 7 days). As a raw product it is put in very thin coats with 4-8hrs drying between – needing as many as 6 coats to provide a decent sacrificial surface. It is virtually waterproof and hard and has a matte finish – can be powerbuffed to a dull sheen. Very easy to repair and renew by simply sanding an area and wiping on more oil – blends easily.<BR>
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If you want a shiny surface with tung it needs to be a polymerized oil (usually through heat – but often with metal driers and resins added) and the marketed versions of that usually are also usually diluted with a solvent. So commercially this type of product is a little more unknown. You can make your own by simply placing a dish of oil in the sun for a few days then dilute with a clean thinner (pure turp or citrus – pure turp has less potential for allergic reactions).<BR>
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Other drying oils suitable for food surfaces are walnut oil, sunflower and safflower oil (typically oils with a low acid value). <BR>
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Stone and concrete are porous and people get pretty annoyed at how bad they can look after a while and/or the amount of maintenance needed. I like the look of deteriorating stone but I am a minority. Most all readily available (or affective) stone sealers are silicone based usually with a solvent that allows for some penetration. Top sealers (acrylic) are also used but they are sacrificial and subsequently have to be stripped to be renewed. I have had success with magnesium silicate in a liquid preparation as a top sealer for concrete and have also used tung oil. Basic pure carnuba wax is decent sacrificial alternative to acrylic as a sacrificial surface – but care has to be taken with cleaning and waxing to not trap moisture and soaps.<BR>
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Finishes are about providing both a sacrificial surface that will hopefully trap a staining material (before it stains) and allow a material to wear evenly – they are also a look. First off determine the ‘look’ you want. If you want it bright and shiny – question your reasons as you are demanding more of the finish and more finish to achieve that over time. Also you don’t want the finish to add to the chemical soup – more durability typically means more toxicity.<BR>
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John<BR>
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<FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> Melissa Andron [<a href="mailto:melissa@realmdesignstudio.com">mailto:melissa@realmdesignstudio.com</a>] <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> October 25, 2010 3:38 AM<BR>
<B>To:</B> 'Alan Abrams'; 'JOHN SALMEN'<BR>
<B>Cc:</B> 'Chris Koehn'; <a href="Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><BR>
<B>Subject:</B> [Greenbuilding] FINISHES for MDF vs Particleboard vs Whatever<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'>Alan, what are you (and others) using to finish/seal these wood countertops? What have you had successes with? Failures? <BR>
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I realize that a client’s priorities dictate what we’re able to use—a client with chemical sensitivities may require a very different finish (or even material) than a client who does not have this issue and prioritizes longevity over all else. There was a time in my life where the former was a requirement for ME based on my health, but now, after many years, I’m in much better health—and would be more likely to choose something that might offgas a bit (and preferably allow it to do this in my garage/workshop for some time!) but would last indefinitely (just as sustainable an option, in my book, if it doesn’t have to be replaced for a much longer time). <BR>
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Thanks!<BR>
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Melissa (Andron) Walter, LEED AP, GreenAP, Allied Member ASID<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> <a href="greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> [<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Alan Abrams<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 25, 2010 6:18 AM<BR>
<B>To:</B> JOHN SALMEN<BR>
<B>Cc:</B> Chris Koehn; <a href="Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] MDF vs Particleboard vs Whatever<BR>
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Nothing like wood for counters. When I can sell it, we're using urban harvest black walnut, which is as beautiful as it is stable (I have a walnut vanity top with an undermount sink, made as an durability experiment. after four years of daily exposure to water, it is in great shape. <BR>
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We did a large portion of a kitchen with urban harvest mulberry--also dense, fairly stable, and unexpectedly beautiful. As I've mentioned before, there are at least three sets of high grade white pine counters still in service that I made in the early 80's--one of which housing a sink.<BR>
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regrettably, I have ripped out countless proprietary (Bally or similar) maple butcher block counters that were severely warped and delaminated.<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#006600"><B>Alan Abrams<BR>
Abrams Design Build LLC<BR>
</B><I>A sustainable approach to beautiful space<BR>
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Butcher block is a good counter surface for dry areas that can be used well and refinished as needed.<BR>
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