<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="Street"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="address"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Gill Sans MT";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 1 4 2 2 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sorry Stephen – I know you know all
that stuff, I liked the question and was thinking out loud and still thinking
out loud. One of the interesting things for me is that when someone is cyanotic
or hypoxic in a medical situation it is pretty apparent. Basically co2 drives
our breathing as we eliminate it. Chronic high(er) levels of co2 in our built
environment may be an issue. It would never be the case that there was not
sufficient oxygen – more that the body becomes less able to utilize the
oxygen as it becomes less able to eliminate co2 or other mixtures of gases. So
we end up with chronic problems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That is one thought and then a companion
thought is that co2 is used as an indicator – if it is present at higher
levels then other gases are so is a broad measuring tool for IAQ and these
gases interact. I think we are allowed approximately double the exterior co2
level for indoor environments. Perhaps that is too high for an aging or health
compromised population. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Increasingly I think ventilation rates are
too low (and people spend too much time indoors but ironically not that much
time in their houses). Are we heating and ventilating houses far too much when
are unoccupied and then ventilating sufficiently for when they are? How well is
demand controlled ventilation actually working?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the question – has me
scratching my head as well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><u><font size=3 color=green face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:green'>JOHN SALMEN
ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN<o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>4465 UPHILL RD</span></font></i></st1:address></st1:Street><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>,. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">DUNCAN</st1:place></st1:City>, B.C. <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">CANADA</st1:place></st1:country-region>, V9L 6M7<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><i><font size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>PH
250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><i><font size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>terrain@shaw.ca<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Stephen Collette [mailto:stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> December 12, 2010 4:44 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> JOHN SALMEN<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b>
Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Stale Air</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for your thoughts John. I am wondering how useful the
measurement of CO2 in homes is. I have a CO meter and pull it out on occasion
and to my memory have not found anything with it in a home. Typically with a
couple of people or small family in a single family dwelling, I wonder whether
they alone could ever get the levels up to something dangerous? Now blended
families or extended families all living under one roof, I think that may be
possible. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I'm not disagreeing with you at all, what you are saying is what I talk
about too, but again, is it actually valid? I don't know, and hence the head
scratching. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Grateful for your time thinking about this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Stephen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div><span style='orphans: 2;text-align:auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span style='-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span
style='-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Stephen Collette
BBEC, LEED AP, BSSO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><i><font size=1 color=black
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Your Healthy House</span></font></i></b></span><span
class=apple-converted-space><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span></font></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>-</span></font></span><span
class=apple-converted-space><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span></font></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Indoor Environmental
Testing & Building Consulting</span></font></span><font size=1 color=black
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><a
href="http://www.yourhealthyhouse.ca">http://www.yourhealthyhouse.ca</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><a
href="mailto:stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca">stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>705.652.5159<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'></span><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span>
<div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address">
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There are a lot of adjectives for air
– stale, stagnant, dead, fetid…<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Air basically means for us oxygen as a
requirement – so stale air could simply be oxygen poor air.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>With ashrae I guess there is adequate
ventilation and inadequate ventilation and stale would be an excess of unventilated
air (stale??). Ashrae uses co2 concentrations as the indicator for adequate
ventilation so there definition is ppm for various uses.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In emergency first aid I measure
ventilation rates, blood oxygen levels as well of level of consciousness
– all of which could reveal an emergency condition in students in a
classroom at the end of a day subject to averaged ventilation and subsequent
‘stale’ air. Tidal volume (breath) is about 500ml with about 14%
oxygen and 4.4% co2 exhaled – outside air is about 21% oxygen and .04%
co2. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So a significant amount of c02 is released
on each breath in comparison to the intake – so we could say that
‘stale air’ is any air exhaled.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Fun question.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div><span style='orphans: 2;text-align:auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'>
<div><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'><span style='-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span style='-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span
style='-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><u1:p>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span></u1:p></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><u1:p><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span></u1:p></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></div>
</body>
</html>