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Does anyone know of an integrated sensor system - temp., humidity,
CO2, CO, etc. - that interpolates and controls the system - that
works?<br>
Remote coupling to web?<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Brian Uher<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/13/10 4:15 PM, Alan Abrams wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTimK4TjmNBD2WNg4Zh4NCSzfBxwwjNqLVSHhXKqr@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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none of this negates John Salmen's comment that ventilation rates
could be too high when buildings are not occupied or when occupied
at lower than design density--just that CO2 level may not be the
way to regulate ventilation for this effect.<br>
<br>
a<br>
<br>
<b>Alan Abrams</b><b><br>
Abrams Design Build LLC</b><br>
<i>A sustainable approach to beautiful space</i><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:alan@abramsdesignbuild.com">alan@abramsdesignbuild.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.abramsdesignbuild.com">www.abramsdesignbuild.com</a><br>
<b>202-726-5894 o<br>
202-437-8583 c<br>
202-291-0626 f</b> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:58 AM, John Straube <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jfstraube@gmail.com">jfstraube@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
Oh and CO kills you at rather low levels.<br>
Sent from my BlackBerry®<br>
<div>
<div><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Keith Winston <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:keith@earthsunenergy.com">keith@earthsunenergy.com</a>><br>
Sender: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 00:25:03<br>
To: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Stale Air<br>
<br>
Um, apples and oranges here, no? John is talking about
CO2, and Stephen<br>
responded concerning CO. One is a natural result of
breathing, and the<br>
other generally occurs indoors in significant quantities
when a<br>
combustion appliance is maladjusted. There is no reliable
correlation<br>
between the two.<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/12/2010 10:31 PM, JOHN SALMEN wrote:<br>
> Sorry Stephen – I know you know all that stuff, I
liked the question<br>
> and was thinking out loud and still thinking out
loud. One of the<br>
> interesting things for me is that when someone is
cyanotic or hypoxic<br>
> in a medical situation it is pretty apparent.
Basically co2 drives our<br>
> breathing as we eliminate it. Chronic high(er) levels
of co2 in our<br>
> built environment may be an issue. It would never be
the case that<br>
> there was not sufficient oxygen – more that the body
becomes less able<br>
> to utilize the oxygen as it becomes less able to
eliminate co2 or other<br>
> mixtures of gases. So we end up with chronic
problems.<br>
><br>
> That is one thought and then a companion thought is
that co2 is used as<br>
> an indicator – if it is present at higher levels then
other gases are<br>
> so is a broad measuring tool for IAQ and these gases
interact. I think<br>
> we are allowed approximately double the exterior co2
level for indoor<br>
> environments. Perhaps that is too high for an aging
or health<br>
> compromised population.<br>
><br>
> Increasingly I think ventilation rates are too low
(and people spend<br>
> too much time indoors but ironically not that much
time in their<br>
> houses). Are we heating and ventilating houses far
too much when are<br>
> unoccupied and then ventilating sufficiently for when
they are? How<br>
> well is demand controlled ventilation actually
working?<br>
><br>
> Thanks for the question – has me scratching my head
as well.<br>
><br>
> John<br>
><br>
>_JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN_<br>
><br>
> /4465 UPHILL RD//,. DUNCAN, B.C. CANADA, V9L 6M7/<br>
><br>
> /PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541/<br>
><br>
> /<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://terrain@shaw.ca/">terrain@shaw.ca/</a><br>
><br>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> *From:*Stephen Collette [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca">stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca</a>]<br>
> *Sent:* December 12, 2010 4:44 PM<br>
> *To:* JOHN SALMEN<br>
> *Cc:* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
> *Subject:* Stale Air<br>
><br>
> Thanks for your thoughts John. I am wondering how
useful the<br>
> measurement of CO2 in homes is. I have a CO meter and
pull it out on<br>
> occasion and to my memory have not found anything
with it in a home.<br>
> Typically with a couple of people or small family in
a single family<br>
> dwelling, I wonder whether they alone could ever get
the levels up to<br>
> something dangerous? Now blended families or extended
families all<br>
> living under one roof, I think that may be possible.<br>
><br>
> I'm not disagreeing with you at all, what you are
saying is what I talk<br>
> about too, but again, is it actually valid? I don't
know, and hence the<br>
> head scratching.<br>
><br>
> Grateful for your time thinking about this.<br>
><br>
> Stephen<br>
><br>
> Stephen Collette BBEC, LEED AP, BSSO<br>
><br>
> */Your Healthy House/*-Indoor Environmental Testing
& Building Consulting<br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.yourhealthyhouse.ca">http://www.yourhealthyhouse.ca</a><br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca">stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca">stephen@yourhealthyhouse.ca</a>><br>
><br>
> 705.652.5159<br>
><br>
>> Hi,<br>
>><br>
>> There are a lot of adjectives for air – stale,
stagnant, dead, fetid…<br>
>><br>
>> Air basically means for us oxygen as a
requirement – so stale air<br>
>> could simply be oxygen poor air.<br>
>><br>
>> .<br>
>><br>
>> With ashrae I guess there is adequate ventilation
and inadequate<br>
>> ventilation and stale would be an excess of
unventilated air<br>
>> (stale??). Ashrae uses co2 concentrations as the
indicator for<br>
>> adequate ventilation so there definition is ppm
for various uses.<br>
>><br>
>> In emergency first aid I measure ventilation
rates, blood oxygen<br>
>> levels as well of level of consciousness – all of
which could reveal<br>
>> an emergency condition in students in a classroom
at the end of a day<br>
>> subject to averaged ventilation and subsequent
‘stale’ air. Tidal<br>
>> volume (breath) is about 500ml with about 14%
oxygen and 4.4% co2<br>
>> exhaled – outside air is about 21% oxygen and
.04% co2.<br>
>><br>
>> So a significant amount of c02 is released on
each breath in<br>
>> comparison to the intake – so we could say that
‘stale air’ is any<br>
>> air exhaled.<br>
>><br>
>> Fun question.<br>
>><br>
>> John<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
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