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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Water storage is always about $1 per
gallon so a tank would be 2000 – insulation (24” of geofoam wrap
for that tank – approx r100) would be at my cost about 4000 and I think
an 8 panel installation with the tank would run about 15000 for an approved
installation. So if you were lucky about 20K which probably about what a 6kw pv
grid connected installation might run at this point. Realistically though a 4
panel installation (which is typical for DHW) with 1000 gallon of well
insulated storage might be a reasonable approach as there is a lot of wastage
in that kind of SHW installation. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoAutoSig><u><font size=3 color=green face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:green'>JOHN SALMEN
ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN<o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>4465 UPHILL RD</span></font></i></st1:address></st1:Street><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>,. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">DUNCAN</st1:place></st1:City>, B.C. <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">CANADA</st1:place></st1:country-region>, V9L 6M7<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><i><font size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>PH
250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><i><font size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>terrain@shaw.ca<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>jfstraube<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> January 12, 2011 5:38 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Greenbuilding] RE Drakes
Landing solar storage</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Sacie, I just looked at the Drake Landing site<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>It is -20C and has been below -15 or so for a while<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Looks like the 52 houses are drawing 310 or so kW. This is about
6 kW per house or 20.5 kBtu/hr for a -4F temperature and 1500-1800 sf above-grade
house square footage. That is not bad, but it could likely be dialed down
by 25-50% with a reasonable upgrade in insulation windows, airtightness.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>They have two tanks, each with almost 30 000 gallons. So that works out
to 60000/52= 1150 gallons per home. If you check the annual report, 80%
of the solar energy put into the ground is lost, but over 95% of the energy put
into the tank is able to be used. So maybe 2000 gallons might be enough
for one home, and should be enough for a super insulated one.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Note that they have 8 solar panels of about 4'x8' each to collect the
heat (that aint cheap either).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Your questions got me thinking.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 2011-01-12, at 12:09 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks John, possible to
use a central tank and find such savings in a single house? How large a
tank are we talking about? S<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-style:italic'>On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:03 AM,
John Straube <<a href="mailto:jfstraube@gmail.com">jfstraube@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word'>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-style:italic'>I have friends who worked on this.
The houses are all R2000. It would have been more economical to
insulate better.. and just using the central tank, no ground loop, would
generate most of the savings with far less cost.</span></font></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-style:italic'>The overall system is very
expensive.</span></font></i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-style:italic'>Check under publications for the
newsletters</span></font></i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>John Straube<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><a
href="http://www.BuildingScience.com">www.BuildingScience.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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