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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There are so many issues here that I find
it difficult to read one liners that end up being dismissive. That is
counterproductive to the community building that is being talked about. I
started my education in planning and architecture with what was then termed ‘appropriate
technology’ which was subservient to social needs as well as
environmental conditions. I then moved into antipoverty and social housing work
when I lived in an urban environment and subsequently into environmental
building as I now live rurally. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As design is about ‘problem solving’
or simply providing for needs each context has its own set of priorities and
exigencies. Personally I think inviting ‘friends’ over to paint my
house is exploitative. Formalizing it in terms of paid ‘workshops’
or ‘volunteer’ type experiences I think is also potentially
exploitative unless the balance of the goals are on providing developable skills
to the individuals as opposed to completing a ‘project’. I feel
pretty strongly about this as there is a growing tendency in the natural
building movement to exploit young peoples energy and enthusiasm not to mention
their safety and well being. I know this firsthand having been approached to ‘lead
workshops’ or training programs where the goal was to get a frame or wall
built as opposed to providing a well prepared lesson plan.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think there is a real responsibility in
a community for everyone to recognize work and provide fair compensation for
it. If I go to a restaurant the tip is part of the cost of the meal that I plan
for – if I cannot afford the tip I cannot afford the meal. Similarly if I
hire or train people for a building project that labour is part of the cost of
that project and if the project cannot afford it then that project has no value
in the community. You can extend this to choice of materials and their cost and
value to the local community. I could choose cheap wooden flooring from the Russian
targa or I could use something locally where I can track the social and
environmental costs and benefits.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><u><font size=3 color=green face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:green'>JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL
DESIGN<o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>4465 UPHILL RD</span></font></i></st1:address></st1:Street><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>,. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">DUNCAN</st1:place></st1:City>, B.C. <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">CANADA</st1:place></st1:country-region>, V9L 6M7<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><i><font size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'>PH
250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><i><font size=2 color=black
face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT";
color:black;font-style:italic'>terrain@shaw.ca</span></font></i></st1:PersonName><i><font
size=2 color=black face="Gill Sans MT"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT";color:black;font-style:italic'><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jan</st1:PersonName>uary
23, 2011 10:04 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Greenbuilding]
Solutions (to the ecological problem)</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I've
lived a lot in old european homes, some of them over 500 years old, and it
makes this modern obsession with btus look pretty silly. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Gennaro<br>
347 244 3016<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jan</st1:PersonName> 23, 2011 12:21 PM,
"natural building" <<a href="mailto:naturalbuilding@shaw.ca">naturalbuilding@shaw.ca</a>>
wrote:<br type=attribution>
> Bravo Gennaro, I applaud your championing the 'cultural' aspect of <br>
> green building on this site.<br>
> <br>
> In North America (as distinct from <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place>
and many other parts of the <br>
> world) we have developed this '5-year resell' culture that, I propose, <br>
> is in large part because most home-owners have little or no connection <br>
> to their homes or community. To them a house is just a short-term <br>
> investment opportunity.<br>
> <br>
> Science has its place - of course - but the pursuit of ever-decreasing <br>
> Btus must integrate successfully with and, IMO, be subservient to the <br>
> need to create homes that people truly feel 'at home' in. <br>
> Sustainability is also about making homes that last (with a little TLC <br>
> and maintenance) rather than get torn down and replaced every 50 years <br>
> - which is another catastrophic NA trend.<br>
> <br>
> Regards.<br>
> Steve Satow<br>
> <br>
> <a href="http://www.naturalbuildingsite.net">www.naturalbuildingsite.net</a><br>
> <a href="mailto:naturalbuilding@shaw.ca">naturalbuilding@shaw.ca</a><br>
> <br>
>> On <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jan</st1:PersonName> 23, 2011, at 9:31
AM, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>> I think the concept of building so that it lasts a very long time <br>
>>> is good. But too many cultures use sacrificial materials for me to
<br>
>>> overlook that option too. For example in <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Spain</st1:place></st1:country-region> the
traditional <br>
>>> stone buildings are white washed with lime that doesn't last very <br>
>>> long. Once a year the family and a couple friends come together
for <br>
>>> a weekend of exercise in the sun with a big meal to paint the
house.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It doesn't pay if you have to hire somebody once a year to do it. <br>
>>> So this is where green building becomes cultural. Our western <br>
>>> culture for the most part doesn't paint their own home. It is paid
<br>
>>> for. But if you turn it into a social event for bonding with the <br>
>>> family maybe painting the home isn't actually the main point.
Maybe <br>
>>> being together with friends and family is.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For me green building is more about strengthening our community
and <br>
>>> our social bonds with nature than any BTU counting. If you have a <br>
>>> strong society that is connected to nature the rest comes naturally.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This was the point I was trying to make before with my point of <br>
>>> there being two ways of looking at green building - techie or <br>
>>> cultural - and my opinion that most people on this list and in <br>
>>> green building in general are tackling it with a techie view
point.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The techie approach in my opinion is what got us in our current <br>
>>> ecological problem in the first place. It makes a damn if we have <br>
>>> Uber efficient homes if the people in them are dysfunctional and <br>
>>> allienated. Green builders for the most part see their job as <br>
>>> building efficient homes. That won't solve our problem in my <br>
>>> opinion. Building homes that connect us to our community and
nature <br>
>>> has a much better chance.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For me that means focusing more closely at how the building <br>
>>> process, the sourcing, the materials used, the upkeep, and the <br>
>>> relationship of buildings to each other strengthen our love of <br>
>>> community and nature. You may counter that it is not either or - <br>
>>> either techie or cultural - and that is absolutely true. But right
<br>
>>> now it is pretty much only techie. If you stream through our <br>
>>> conversations it is mostly about efficient materials and BTUs.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I think our love of science destroyed our ecology. I conclude this
<br>
>>> because most older non-scientific cultures have done significantly
<br>
>>> better than newer scientific cultures in being custodians of our <br>
>>> planet. And if Einstein is right then science should not be the <br>
>>> tool we use to get us out of our ecological problems. We need a <br>
>>> different tool.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I think we need to veer significantly more in the direction of <br>
>>> cultural and natural related issues to solve our ecological
issues.<br>
>>> Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com">www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>
>>> <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">22 2nd St</st1:address></st1:Street>;
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Brooklyn</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">11231</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Sender: <a
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>> Date: Sat, 22 <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jan</st1:PersonName> 2011
12:36:32<br>
>>> To: '<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:PersonName></st1:place>'<<a
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
>>> Reply-to: <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:PersonName></st1:place>
<<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Nansulate Insulation<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>> <a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>> <a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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