<html><head><base href="x-msg://5/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hey Ross and John,<div><br></div><div>Here in NS, we have several small production builders who consistently come in at <1 ACH@50, Keith Sawlor hit 0.29 (I personally did that test, about 15 years ago!!). On all of our custom design jobs, 0.5ACH @ 50 is the target on our bid documents. While not all builders hit that, they are consistently coming in at less than 1 and some are bang on, because they have long-standing crews who can do the air sealing work. Ross, I'm with you on the NZE house $25,000 PV extravaganza, which might make sense where there is a decent FIT, like ON, but here in NS, where ComFIT comes into play April 1, there is still no real business case for it (ie, ROI sucks). We ensure that the design and planning allows for 3 to 7 kW PV on the roof and with conduit (not wiring) in place and wall space in the mechanical area for inverter and controls, roof mount and any extra bracing etc in place as homeowner dictates. When it's affordable/cost-effective, homeowner can have it installed.<div><br></div><div>I agree with John on the issues around the energy modelling, and that a set of dogmatic rules leads us right back to the one-size-fits-all approach, which leads us right back to the problem of large tract builders and 1,000s of spec homes in GTA every year that are not meeting the +20-year-old R2000 standard, but are building to a one-size-fits-all approach, just using a different set of dogmatic rules driven by a different set of requirements ($/sf vs W/sf).</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers from mighty chilly Halifax</div><div><br></div><div>Shawna<br><div><br><div><div><div>On 25-Jan-11, at 8:12 PM, Ross Elliott wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Trebuchet MS'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Doh! I KNEW I was missing a mandatory! So there’s four, not three.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John, maybe I’ve been brainwashed by the Germans, but I kinda like that 0.6 ACH50. According to the good Dr. Feist at that level of air tightness you won’t get any hidden condensation problems (don’t ask me why, I just believe everything I hear). My own place meets R-2000’s 1.5 ACH50, yet in the last cold snap I discovered several frost balls on the outside of the foamboard (which would soon be hidden behind siding) where I’ve got some small air leaks. We’ve got a tract builder here in Ottawa who has built hundreds of homes in a row below 1.5 ACH50, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to shoot for better on a custom green home.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The “sophisticated computer program” we’ve been using for R-2000 since 1983 actually doesn’t work that well for high performance houses beyond the current R-2000 / ERS 80, there’s going to be real problems getting them to NRCan’s magical ERS 86 or 87 in the next version of R-2000 without using heat pumps everywhere. HOT2K just isn’t that good at modeling great envelopes right now. It’s also a “black box” where we just have to accept the results are accurately calculated, whereas the PHPP Excel spreadsheet allows you to see what’s going on – not that it does a guy like me any good to know the formulas, but at least it’s there for smarter people than me to quibble over.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The Net Zero homes use exorbitantly expensive renewable energy systems to push them to zero, whereas in my humble opinion if they’re not up around Passive House for their building envelope before they go for renewable then they’re just buying energy to waste, at a lot higher cost than from the grid or pipeline. Talk about a science experiment… And if your total annual energy bill is under $1000 because you built a true energy efficient home, then putting $25,000 worth of PV on the roof seems like just a political statement, since those PV panels will be obsolete long before they pay for themselves (notwithstanding taxpayers covering the cost through incentive programs). But I really do appreciate your insights into where the tradeoffs should be in terms of cost, energy savings and carbon emissions, it’s a conversation well worth continuing. Passive House may not be the answer to everything, but I think it’s better than any of the alternatives currently available.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">But John, I really do have to agree with you about one thing. Mike Holmes is definitely not someone you want promoting anything to professional builders or renovators! <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Ross<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>jfstraube [<a href="mailto:jfstraube@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:jfstraube@gmail.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:25 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:relliott@homesol.ca" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">relliott@homesol.ca</a>; Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Greenbuilding] first certified Passive House in Canada<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I think it is clear that you can build a PassivHaus standard home anywere. The question is, should you? More nuanced, the question is, "is the PH standard the optimal home for the location and purpose envisaged".<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">CMHC has supported the construction of a whole bunch of Net Zero Energy houses across Canada, a more stringent energy standard than PH. This does not mean it is a good idea. However, the design teams are, under the target of Net Zero, allowed to trade off the cost of insulation, the cost of airtightness, and the cost of generation for their specific building and the climate in which it is built. PH is more dogmatic.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I really like PHPP, but it is an Excel spreadsheet, not magic. R2000 home builders have been required to use a more sophisticated computer program and blower door test to verify their energy use compliance since forever (OK, 20 years). They just have not set sufficiently low targets. I strongly agree that if PH can convince people to use a model to predict energy use and do a blower door test to confirm airtightness, then it will be a huge benefit. But one does not need to follow some of the dogmatic rules, like 0.6@50, to get a durable, healthy, afforable, and low energy building. There are numerous other tried and true methods. PH is just one set of numbers that one group chose. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">PS The PH standard DEFINITELY has a requirement of 0.6 ACH@50 Pa. The 10% overheating is rarely listed. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">See for example Wikipeadia<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house#Requirements" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house#Requirements</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">and<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Passive House USA<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="http://www.passivehouse.us/passiveHouse/PassiveHouseInfo.html" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.passivehouse.us/passiveHouse/PassiveHouseInfo.html</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">PSS If Mike Holmes is behind it, then PH just dropped in my estimation. Pop culture, yes, science and fact, NOT!<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></body></html>