<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Steve, a minor correction: the Pumice comes from Mt. Garibaldi just north of Whistler, but still well within the 'local' range. And Perlite - which Ann and Gord have experimented with - comes from Northern Oregon which I also think qualifies as within acceptable distance according to the Living Building Challenge criteria that allow light materials to be transported 1000 miles. Perlite is definitely light.<div><br></div><div>So I would suggest that the use of Perlite as a very natural and bio-degradable insulating material is considerably more preferable than oil-based foams which, in addition to having high embodied energy and being environmentally unfriendly, also renders the other materials onto which it is sprayed incapable of being re-used or recycled effectively.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,<br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Papyrus; color: rgb(255, 160, 18); "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Papyrus; color: rgb(99, 10, 255); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">Steve Satow</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Papyrus; color: rgb(99, 10, 255); "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Papyrus; color: rgb(99, 10, 255); "><a href="http://www.naturalbuildingsite.net">www.naturalbuildingsite.net</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Papyrus; color: rgb(99, 10, 255); "><a href="mailto:naturalbuilding@shaw.ca">naturalbuilding@shaw.ca</a></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br><div><div>On 27-Jan-11, at 3:40 PM, Steve wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><blockquote type="cite">I see a ".ca" in the "greengeek" edress so I going to ass-u-me that we're<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">talking a MooseLand locale ?<br></blockquote><br>Yep, I'm in Canada. Victoria, BC to be specific.. not too many moose<br>around here that I've seen. :)<br><br><blockquote type="cite">And if that assumption is accurate- just wondering: Where in Canada are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">there naturally-occurring perlite deposits ?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(And "no" I don't think that the "insulation" or "plastering supplies"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">aisles at the nearest Home Despot qualify)<br></blockquote><br>It was Ann & Gord Baird of Eco-Sense (a well-known local cob house<br>project) who renewed my interest in using natural volcanic stone as<br>insulation. I checked again, and it was actually pumice, not perlite,<br>that they used. My mistake. They sourced the pumice from a location<br>right here on Vancouver Island.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">ie Does it make Green sense to import a "natural" (if being<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mined/pulverised/packaged/transported by massive machinery qualify it as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"natural") thousands of kilometers and across international borders just so<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that one can say that an insulation is "bio-degradable" ?<br></blockquote><br>If it wasn't available locally, then no it wouldn't be worth it, no<br>matter how biodegradable it was.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Not only that, the resultant mixture likely wouldn't even provide the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">minimum R-values for a wall as required by the Codes (assuming that the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cavity is standard 2x4 or 2x6 wood-frame construction) and would not seal<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">very well once it has dried and shrunk away from the framing.<br></blockquote><br>I was thinking it could be used as a later to provide an air seal, in<br>addition to something like blown-in cellulose, or perhaps as a<br>spray-on finish for strawbale, rather than filling wall cavities<br>completely as the only insulation. I'm not a builder, and have only<br>limited hands-on experience with either cob or clay plaster, so this<br>is just a thought.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">So I have to wonder: "Why bother ?" ... knowing that here in Canada, a more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">readily-available, lower environmental impact, plentiful, "natural",<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">bio-degradable, blow-able "waste" material with about the same or better<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">insulation value as perlite (depending upon density of the form of perlite<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">used) exists. (Sawdust, chopped straw or even chopped up recycled newsprint<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">etc )<br></blockquote><br>It was just a thought; there are many different levels of "green<br>building", ranging from light green barely-LEED-Silver designs to deep<br>green natural building techniques such as cob, strawbale, etc. I was<br>just thinking if the materials are available locally and would provide<br>some benefit in place of oil-based spray foam, then it might be a way<br>to make natural products more appealing to a conventional builder or<br>client. Chopped straw might still be a bit of a leap for some people,<br>something that went up like lightweight concrete probably wouldn't.<br><br>-Steve<br>-- <br><a href="http://www.greengeek.ca">http://www.greengeek.ca</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>