<html><head><base href="x-msg://382/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Here in Michigan, we may end up with less than ideal naturally rot resistant wood in our lumber yards. For example, I have seen cedar decks (with no ground contact) rot within 10 years and redwood fail within 7 years. I will not use PT in decking applications but have started to use some thermally modified pine. The suppliers seem confident of the longevity of this stuff, and so far (after two years) it looks pretty good. A lot of BTU goes into this product, but if it lasts 20+ years, it may be a good value for exterior applications rather than using PT or the imported options.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Paul Brown</div><div>Compass Construction</div><div><br></div><div> <br><div><div>On Feb 7, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Tim Vireo Keating wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div><div>But it doesn't seem all that easy to find Western red cedar in the northeast that can be assured to not be from old growth. Eastern white cedar is plentiful but likely not as long-lasting. On the other hand, I do know a source of salvaged Atlantic whitecedar. Given the dimensions suggested, this would be easy to use. But AWC is less structural (IMHO) than other cedars (actually, AWC isn't a cedar, per se, but a cypress).</div><div><br></div><div>Termites could still be an issue, though.</div><div><br></div><div>tim keating</div><div><br></div><div>At 10:08 PM -0800 2/5/11, Kathy Cochran wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br><x-tab> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></x-tab>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0444_01CBC581.354EC980"<br>Content-Language: en-us<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">When researching what wood to use to build long-lasting raised garden beds, I have discovered that the "professional" raised garden beds producers use cedar. I checked with my local hardware/lumber store, and they said that it would last way longer than redwood - probably at least 40 years - and that is with direct contact with soil, water, etc. AND - it is way cheaper too! I don't know if it would have the strength to handle the requirements of Gennaro's wall, but it might be worth looking into.</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">I think the idea of rubber patches between wood is excellent. When my deck was built, they covered all the stringers with bituthane (sp?) so that wood would not be rubbing against wood, (no squeaking!) and also water from above would not damage the sub-structure. One of the more intelligent things that were done</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">Kathy Cochran</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">PO Box 117</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">San Andreas, California 95249</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">(209) 754-4201</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "><a href="mailto:Kathys_old_house@goldrush.com">Kathys_old_house@goldrush.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]<b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>On Behalf Of</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Clarke Olsen<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:14 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Greenbuilding] alive and wall</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">RT is right: build with white oak, locust, or larch (tamarack), and <br>it will last, if not the absolute 50 years, certainly until someone<br>tears it down. When fastening wood together in outdoor construction, <br>insert a dry break between wood to wood contact.<br>Something on the order of a rubber patch (old inner-tube) where <br>pieces overlap will reduce the speed of decomposition.<br>Encouraging plants to grab onto masonry can be asking for trouble... <br>a root cause of decay.<br>Clarke Olsen<br>373 route 203<br>Spencertown, NY 12165<br>USA<br>518-392-4640<br><a href="mailto:colsen@fairpoint.net">colsen@fairpoint.net</a><br><br><br>> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 14:52:41 -0500, Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>> <<a href="mailto:info@ecobrooklyn.com">info@ecobrooklyn.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>> I'm building a 35*20 foot exterior living wall that needs to hold <br>>> most of<br>>> its weight and is attached to a brick brownstone facade. I am <br>>> looking for<br>>> long lasting (50 plus?) materials to form the structure.<br>><br>> ..........................<br>><br>> It appears that Gennaro is simply wanting to hang a trellis for some<br>> greenery to climb on ?<br>><br>> But if a construction of some sort is absolutely necessary, it <br>> seems bizarre that an aspiring "Green" builder would opt for high <br>> embodied-energy aluminum or stainless steel framing components or <br>> cable. It seems akin to trying to shave with a tub grinder.<br>> ............................<br>> For a "serious" trellis, White oak lumber (which I know is so <br>> plentiful in the NE states that people hack up good sized trees and <br>> burn it for firewood ) would be a good choice I would think. I have <br>> no doubt that it would easily last for the 50 year time frame <br>> Gennaro specifies.<br>><br>> --<br>> === * ===<br>> Rob Tom<br>> Kanata, Ontario, Canada<br>> < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a ><br>> manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"<br>> __________________________________________________<br>> Do You Yahoo!?<br>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection <br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com">aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/</a><br>> greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span></span>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists<span></span>.bioenergylists.org</a></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "><hr size="1"></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; ">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3425 - Release Date: 02/05/11</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" cite="" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.</a><span></span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">bioenergylists.org</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><x-sigsep><pre>--
</pre></x-sigsep><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><br></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><br></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">"The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">measure of our bodies are the same..."</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"> <x-tab> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></x-tab> <span></span> <span></span> - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b>____________________________________________</b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="+1" color="#000000"><b><br></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="+1" color="#000000"><b>R A I N F O R E S T R E L I E F</b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="+1" color="#000000"><b><br></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><i>Sparing the World's Rainforests from Consumption</i></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b><br></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">Rainforest Relief works to protect the world's remaining tropical</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">and temperate rainforests by reducing the demand for the products</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">and materials of rainforest destruction such as timber and paper,</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">industrial agricultural products such as bananas, beef, coffee,</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">chocolate and cut flowers, and mining products</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000">such as oil, gold and aluminum.</font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b><br></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b>New York, NY: (917) 543-4064</b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b>Portland, OR: (503) 236-3031</b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b><a href="http://www.rainforestrelief.org">http://www.rainforestrelief.org</a></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b><a href="mailto:info@rainforestrelief.org">info@rainforestrelief.org</a></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b>Church Street Station * PO Box 298 * NY, NY 10008-0298</b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b><br></b></font></div><div align="center"><font face="Skia" size="-1" color="#000000"><b>><><><><><><><><><span></span><><><><><><><><><<span></span>><><><><><><</b></font></div>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>Paul D. Brown</div><div>LEED AP</div><div>EcoMetrics LLC</div><div><br></div><div>(616) 780-0163</div><div><a href="mailto:paul.compass@gmail.com">paul.compass@gmail.com</a></div><div><a href="mailto:paul@ecometrics.biz">paul@ecometrics.biz</a></div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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