<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.17063" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>OK, I
have ignored most of this thread because I cannot understand why it is
happening.........</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
acknowledge that I live in a country with not very much "green power" and no
nuclear at all, but the physics of heating water are universal, and I don't
think the metering policies vary that much.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This
is actually a green building forum but the philosophy seems to be
extraordinarily shallow. The first question that needs to be begged is: what
does your power billing structure look like? Do you have "time of use"
billing?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If no,
then ripping out whatever you have to put in an electric tankless need careful
consideration, and is likely to turn out to be a bad idea.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If
yes, then an electric tankless system is an absurd proposition as a replacement
for whatever, and an option of last resort usually only considered if you
currently have nothing, or are rubbing two sticks together.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Tankless electric ruled the roost in the 1950s, but you will be amazed
how much technology has gone under the bridge since then, particularly in the
insulation department. You can rabbit on all you like about standby losses etc.,
what little there might be, but it doesn't add up to well if it costs
you five times as much to take a shower when you want it, rather than when the
supply authority prefers you to have it. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Further, for electric tankless, "economy" and "substantial water flow"
are contradictions in terms.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Yes, I
do recall hearing that there are some places that have so much electricity they
don't bother with off-peak metering. Perhaps it was British Columbia, and
everybody lives there.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187454206-10022011></SPAN><SPAN class=187454206-10022011><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Long story short, heat the water you want when
it is most sensible to do so.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Nick Pyner<BR><BR>Dee Why NSW </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>elitalking<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 10 February 2011 3:26
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Green Building<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Max
Temp Storage WaterHeaters+TemperatureSensors<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">Thanks
for the responses for <FONT size=1><FONT size=3><EM>Max Temp Storage Water
Heaters+TemperatureSensors</EM></FONT></P></FONT><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">Steve
Satow writes:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">Eli,
this begs the question: if you are already replacing the water heater, why not
get an on-demand electric tankless system that supplies water to the bathroom
only when you want it? More compact than any tank so you can put it
somewhere convenient and it would eliminate virtually all the unavoidable
standby losses associated with a tank?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">My
response<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">Long
story short, heat only the quantity water needed at the location when it is
needed.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>