<p>Probably because earth is familiar and mars is a stranger</p>
<p>Gennaro<br>
347 244 3016<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 19, 2011 1:29 AM, "Tim Vireo Keating" <<a href="mailto:t.keating@rainforestrelief.org">t.keating@rainforestrelief.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> In this post, Gennaro, you refer to "earth" and "Mars". Curious.<br>
> <br>> tim<br>> <br>>>This talk of space travel and green building makes me think of a book<br>>>I just finished by Alan Weisman called Gaviotas. It is about a<br>>>community in the barren and war torn area of Columbia called Los<br>
>>Llanos. Started in the sixties and alive today this community turned<br>>>parched soil that only held a couple kinds of rough grasses into a<br>>>lush jungle forest. They used alternative planting techniques and huge<br>
>>amounts of creativity. Their community generates its own power, its<br>>>own water and pretty much everything else it needs. It is a real story<br>>>of turning barren nothingness into a bountiful green utopia.<br>
>><br>>>But here is the kicker. The similarity to space conquest is huge.<br>>><br>>>They go to a barren uninhabited wasteland and colonize it.<br>>><br>>>They see this triumph of human spirit as success. And compared to the<br>
>>slums and wars of the rest of Columbia it is a huge success.<br>>><br>>>But if you step back a bit and play devils advocate what is the<br>>>difference between what they did and what settlers did to North<br>
>>America? The "barren grassland" they apparently turned into something<br>>>useful is purely a human centered view. I'm sure the grassland felt<br>>>plenty useful without us.<br>>><br>
>>On the other hand the story of Gaviotas shows that the inherent nature<br>>>of humans is to expand and as long as there is space we will expand<br>>>into it. I don't think humans will ever say, "I'm fine where I am, I<br>
>>don't need to know what is around that corner." Humans are hell bent<br>>>on getting into space just like Martha Stewart is hell bent on<br>>>becoming the leader of whatever there is to lead.<br>
>><br>>>Now that there is so little more space to expand into on earth it is<br>>>natural we will expand into space. There was a time when Africa was as<br>>>foreign to Europeans as Mars is to us now. It certainly wasn't<br>
>>"natural" for whites to live in Africa. And yet humans have lived in<br>>>geological extremes for our whole existence.<br>>><br>>>Saying space is not a natural place for humans is like an Eskimo<br>
>>saying they aren't naturally built to live in the deserts Nairobi.<br>>>They would survive just fine after some adjustment.<br>>><br>>>Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>>><br>>>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br>
>><a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com">www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>>>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>>On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:04 AM, JOHN SALMEN <<a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca">terrain@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> I didn't catch Martha or space travel, sounds like everyone has been having<br>>>> fun this week.<br>>>><br>>>> I don't find the greenbuilding/star travel combination that farfetched. We<br>
>>> are the children of our culture and for Americans the starwars generation<br>>>> rules. The was the reinvigoration of mythic archetypes for a few generations<br>>>> and greenbuilding with its concern for meaning and transformation (as well<br>
>>> as post apocalyptic obsession) fits just as well as space travel.<br>>>><br>>>> Old bricks have for at least 20 years been worth a 1/3 more than new bricks<br>>>> given peoples interest in having facades feel timeless (another<br>
>>> anthropological oddity) - but not idiotic.<br>>>><br>>>> As for living walls... when I lived in ny I rented an old boarded up<br>>>> storefront at the base of a tenement between A&B. The door to the back had<br>
>>> been boarded up for decades. When I bust it open I found an avenue of wild<br>>>> uninhabited lush greenery that stretched for the whole street behind the<br>>>> tenements. Of course I immediately gentrified it by cutting it down and<br>
>>> making a nice little patio and garden. Not sure the point of that but<br>>>> something to do with greenspaces in ny and gentrification of ghettos (a form<br>>>> of space travel at the time).<br>
>>><br>>>> There is also a rule in permaculture - that if you can care (as in keep<br>>>> alive over time)a potted plant on your doorstep you can then move off the<br>>>> doorstep and enlarge your area of governance. Seems to me this both applies<br>
>>> to living walls and space travel.<br>>>><br>>>> What is the thing with Martha - thought she was in jail?<br>>>><br>>>> JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN<br>>>> 4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C. CANADA, V9L 6M7<br>
>> > PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541<br>>>> <a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca">terrain@shaw.ca</a><br>>>><br>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>>> From: <a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Gennaro<br>>>> Brooks-Church<br>>>> Sent: February 10, 2011 6:45 PM<br>
>>> To: Green Building<br>>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart<br>>>><br>>>> I've had living walls and space travel labeled a joke this week on<br>>>> this list. I remember being told green roofs were a joke. I got called<br>
>>> an idiot just three years ago for salvaging bricks from a dumpster.<br>>>> Laugh on.<br>>>><br>>>> Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>>>><br>>>> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com">www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>>>> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Racheli Gai<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:racheli@sonoracohousing.com">racheli@sonoracohousing.com</a>> wrote:<br>>>>> It's a joke, but a sinister one. It keeps many people's gaze on places<br>>>> far<br>
>>>> away, rather than caring<br>>>>> for the ground under their feet. It also means that lots of money is<br>>>> spent<br>>>>> chasing BS dreams, while<br>>>>> we have homeless people; untold numbers with not enough to eat, etc. etc.<br>
>>>><br>>>>> Racheli.<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Ron Cascio wrote:<br>>>>><br>>>>>> Any kind of escape to another planet is simply a joke. Nothing more.<br>
>>> Let's<br>>>>>> move on to something accomplishable.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Ron<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corwyn" <<a href="mailto:corwyn@midcoast.com">corwyn@midcoast.com</a>><br>
>>>>> To: "Green Building" <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:25 PM<br>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>>> On 2/10/2011 1:47 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:<br>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Corwyn my opinion is that we are not at the point where we can<br>>>>>>>> calculate numbers or make any conclusion about whether we can or can<br>>>>>>>> not colonize other planets. The technology is not there. But if the<br>
>>>>>>> last century is any indication we could be at a very different<br>>>>>>>> technological point in another 100 years (whether we are space<br>>>>>>>> travelling or living in caves is another question).<br>
>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> Also, I never said anything about saving the people on earth. I simply<br>>>>>>>> said the survival of the human race.<br>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Perhaps I just think that the idea of murdering 6 Billion people so that<br>>>>>>> a few elitist humans can escape their self-made Armageddon to go live in<br>>>>>>> a hell-hole of another planet, isn't worth hoping for.<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Any technology insufficient to help this planet, won't allow anyone to<br>>>>>>> live on another one.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thank You Kindly,<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Corwyn<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> --<br>>>>>>> Topher Belknap<br>
>>>>>> Green Fret Consulting<br>>>>>>> Kermit didn't know the half of it...<br>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.greenfret.com/">http://www.greenfret.com/</a><br>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:topher@greenfret.com">topher@greenfret.com</a><br>
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> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> <br>> <br>> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the<br>> measure of our bodies are the same..."<br>> - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief<br>
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