<p>I think the only reason earlier people didn't destroy the earth like we do now is because there were a lot less of them. <br>
There were a couple thousand indians on manhattan. Their way of staying clean was to move camp sites whenever "the stench became unbeatable". Paraphrased by the amazing book manahatta.<br>
Their ecological wisdom is overrated. A couple million indians on manhattan wouldn't last a week.</p>
<p>The only wisdom you could argue they had was keeping their population low, which I don't think was intentional.</p>
<p>Gennaro<br>
347 244 3016<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 19, 2011 1:07 AM, "Tim Vireo Keating" <<a href="mailto:t.keating@rainforestrelief.org">t.keating@rainforestrelief.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> Sorry for the long post butŠ I find myself struck <br>
> by so many aspects of this conversation that I <br>> simply cannot keep silent.<br>> <br>> When I see references to Star Trek, I am reminded <br>> of my assessment of the Star Trek mythology. The <br>> philosophy seemed to change a bit with the <br>
> various shows, but only a little. It suggested <br>> that, in the future, humans had been able to <br>> solve all the problems plaguing their tenure on <br>> Earth and then, using new technology, venture out <br>
> into space (presumably wiser than other species <br>> of life intelligent enough to either have taken <br>> over their own planets and/or to also have <br>> developed the means of space travel).<br>> <br>
> A number of things come to mind when I think of <br>> the Star Trek philosophy (voiced, to some degree, <br>> by Gennaro). One is that, in order for it to <br>> truly work, the amount of resources poured into <br>
> getting some humans to other planets will have <br>> assured the loss of many more species of life on <br>> Earth (after all, where will the steel, aluminum, <br>> plastic and energy come from?).<br>> <br>
> The second thing is this (and forgive me for the twists and turns here):<br>> <br>> In an episode of Star Trek Enterprise (for <br>> non-watchers, this was the most recent TV <br>> iteration, the prequel to the original, taking <br>
> place just after the development of the warp <br>> drive), I observed Captain Archer, talking among <br>> a small group that included a Vulcan, say <br>> something to this effect: "on Vulcan you've been <br>
> able to control your emotions. But on the earth, <br>> we don't do things that way." That is, when he <br>> referred to someone else's planet, he named that <br>> planet using its proper name, without an article <br>
> (as we still do with Mars, Venus, Jupiter, etc.). <br>> But, when referring to Earth, his own planet, he <br>> stated "it" as "the earth".<br>> <br>> I believe this to be an incredibly important <br>
> difference and, I have noticed, it has now become <br>> the convention. Civilized humans have come to <br>> refer to the planet on (in) which we live as "the <br>> earth", in effect, expiring 'her'. It seems that <br>
> our culture now considers our planet to be <br>> nothing more than a lump of dirt, even though we <br>> continue to refer to other planets with their <br>> proper - and capitalized - names. Indeed, in <br>> Gennaro's post below, he refers to "earth" (small <br>
> "e").<br>> <br>> Why? It seems we have cut out the personal, <br>> spiritual sense we once had of our Mother as a <br>> living being. In my opinion, this was done <br>> intentionally, for expedience. After all, if <br>
> Earth is a living being (like Io, Mercury or <br>> Vulcan), how could we mine her and remove her <br>> vital skin (forests)? Only by objectifying her <br>> can we do these things and feel okay - much as <br>
> men objectified women and were thus able to 'own' <br>> them as wives (whereby they could not, by law, be <br>> raped). We did the same with animals. Thousand of <br>> years ago - and still today, among foraging <br>
> peoples - we considered other animals to be part <br>> of autonomous nations. But at some point, we came <br>> to see them as property. Only then were were able <br>> to capture them and corral them and hobble them, <br>
> whip them and cut off their genitals, so we could <br>> keep them around as our future food.<br>> <br>> I have come to understand that the notion of <br>> 'humans' leaving Earth for other planets is not <br>
> only the epitome of the truly tragic (for all <br>> life) mythology of civilized humans, but also a <br>> grand delusion. If, when one looks around, one is <br>> not seeing a planet in crisis, where humans are <br>
> about to succumb to the wave of extinction that <br>> we have, ourselves created, I believe one is <br>> deluded. If one is seeing this as okay, thinking <br>> that other planets are the relief valve, then, I <br>
> believe, one is also part of the problem.<br>> <br>> The other thing that comes up for me around this <br>> is that civilized humans forget that <br>> non-civilized humans existed and, indeed, worked <br>
> quite well, thank you very much, on this planet <br>> for a million years before the 'invention' of <br>> Civilization just a short 12,000 years ago. It is <br>> only Civilization that has led us to the <br>
> precipice of Mass Extinction and the extinction <br>> of humans along with it.<br>> <br>> For me, the notion of colonizing other planets is <br>> very, very scary because, if Civilized humans do <br>> that, I believe it is simply INEVITABLE that we <br>
> will destroy any planet on which we land. This, I <br>> believe, is simply the nature of Civilization. <br>> Civilized humans are the last thing I would wish <br>> upon our Milky Way.<br>> <br>> Ethiopian proverb: "no matter how far you've <br>
> traveled down the wrong roadŠ turn back".<br>> <br>> I believe what is needed is for civilized humans <br>> to re-embrace a way of seeing ourselves that is <br>> humble and abides Earth as the ultimate governor. <br>
> That would, I think, mean that we have moved back <br>> towards seeing ourselves as a strand in the web, <br>> rather than the owners of this 'property' that's <br>> been "given" to us.<br>
> <br>> I'll end with this: Bill states below the chances <br>> of other "life forms" crossing our path during <br>> our short existence as being "extremely low". My <br>> experience is quite different. From the time I <br>
> was a child, I have grown to at first find <br>> fascinating, then admire, and then love the <br>> thousands upon thousands of other life forms that <br>> have crossed my path during my short (but <br>> fluorescent) time I have spent walking upon, <br>
> swimming in and eating Mother Earth. I find <br>> "myself" surrounded by, and indeed, made up of, <br>> other life forms. So, perhaps, herein lies the <br>> problem. Most of us walk around never seeing <br>
> them, never touching them, never really eating <br>> them - never (or so we think) depending on them. <br>> And thus, I often hear people express that 'we're <br>> alone here'. Wow.<br>> <br>> We are not alone. We are one species among what <br>
> may be more than a billion unique life forms, <br>> surrounded by trillions of autonomous individual <br>> beings, all part of something grand. We call her <br>> Earth.<br>> <br>> The "final frontier" is the space between our ears.<br>
> <br>> tim keating<br>> <br>> <br>> At 3:32 AM +0000 2/12/11, <a href="mailto:bill.allen@verizon.net">bill.allen@verizon.net</a> wrote:<br>>>I too find it hard to believe that earth hosts <br>>>the only life in the vast universe. However, <br>
>>considering the infinity of time involved, the <br>>>chances of other life forms crossing our path <br>>>during our short existence are extremely low.<br>>><br>>>So, I believe we are stuck with just us, on <br>
>>earth, so we better take the best care of it we <br>>>can.<br>>><br>>>-----Original Message-----<br>>>From: Gennaro Brooks-Church <<a href="mailto:info@ecobrooklyn.com">info@ecobrooklyn.com</a>><br>
>>Sender: <a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>>>Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:29:10<br>>>To: Green Building<<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
>>Reply-to: Green Building <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>>>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart<br>>><br>>>Ron I'm not sure how vital us humans are to earth.<br>
>>Maybe somebody can remind me but from what I remember us humans have<br>>>been on the earth for about 1% of it's life. And who knows how long we<br>>>last.<br>>><br>>>In time the human infestation of earth may be remembered as a short<br>
>>lived irritant in earths long life.<br>>><br>>>And just to mix things up a little, I think it is the epitome of<br>>>arrogance to think humans are the only space travelers in this vast<br>>>universe.<br>
>>My bets are that we are a designated nature preserve very much like<br>>>certain cavemen tribes are in places like the Andaman islands or<br>>>Borneo. The aliens are keeping us isolated so we are not tainted by<br>
>>the issues of modern society (their modern society).<br>>><br>>>Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>>><br>>>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br>>><a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com">www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>
>>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>>On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Ron Cascio <<a href="mailto:roncascio@verizon.net">roncascio@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Greenwashing taken to the limits of space.<br>>>><br>>>> Dream on.<br>>>><br>>>> We already have a home, and we have evolved as a vital part of it.<br>>>><br>>>> Ron<br>
>>><br>>>><br>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynelle Hamilton"<br>>>> <<a href="mailto:lynelle@lahamilton.com">lynelle@lahamilton.com</a>><br>>>> To: "Green Building" <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 6:38 PM<br>>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> With polished silver tea service on board, I'm certain....<br>
>>><br>>>> Lynelle<br>>>><br>>>> On 11/02/2011 5:59 PM, Jason Holstine wrote:<br>>>>><br>>>>> Everyone on this thread is more prescient than I imagined...given<br>
>>>> today's announcement that Martha Stewart is teaming with Sir Richard<br>>>>> Branson on a new Space Rocket/Housing Pod-sounds like an RV for space<br>>>>> travel.<br>>>>><br>
>>>><br>>>>> On 2/11/11 1:53 PM, "Benjamin Pratt" <<a href="mailto:benjamin.g.pratt@gmail.com">benjamin.g.pratt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> >><br>>>>> I don't have an issue with dreaming optimistically about the future. I<br>
>>>> do have a problem with spending incredible amounts of resources and<br>>>>> money exploring the universe when it could be put to much better<br>>>>> use--toward research on the environment solutions to save our planet,<br>
>>>> for example.<br>>>>> Ben<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> b e n j a m i n p r a t t<br>>>>><br>>>>> professor art+design<br>>>>> the university of wisconsin stout<br>
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>>><br>>>> --<br>>>> Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to reach<br>>>> me: <a href="mailto:lynelle@lahamilton.com">lynelle@lahamilton.com</a><br>>>><br>
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> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> <br>> <br>> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the<br>> measure of our bodies are the same..."<br>> - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief<br>
> ____________________________________________<br>> <br>> R A I N F O R E S T R E L I E F<br>> <br>> Sparing the World's Rainforests from Consumption<br>> <br>
> Rainforest Relief works to protect the world's remaining tropical<br>> and temperate rainforests by reducing the demand for the products<br>> and materials of rainforest destruction such as timber and paper,<br>
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