<html>
<body>
What about thin stone veneer panels like the ones used for elevator cabs?
They're usually a stone facing on a metal honeycomb. Wondering if
something like that could work.<br><br>
David<br><br>
At 10:32 AM 4/8/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I found some rock wool board
that could be covered with a thin layer<br>
of colored concrete.<br>
Lots of high embodied energy...but would last.<br><br>
<a href="http://www.o-digital.com/wholesale-products/2179/2198-1/High-Density-Rock-Wool-BoardPanel-91893.html" eudora="autourl">
http://www.o-digital.com/wholesale-products/2179/2198-1/High-Density-Rock-Wool-BoardPanel-91893.html</a>
<br><br>
<br>
Gennaro Brooks-Church<br><br>
Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br>
<a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com" eudora="autourl">
www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>
22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 10:20 AM, JOHN SALMEN <terrain@shaw.ca>
wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> From: greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
>
[<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of
Gennaro<br>
> Brooks-Church<br>
> Sent: April 7, 2011 12:41 PM<br>
> To: Green Building<br>
><br>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hard to know what you are also wanting to achieve here. I did a roof
deck in<br>
> ny for gardens and we reinforced to the roof to take the additional
load.<br>
><br>
> I imagine the roof is a basically flat tarry mess that has been
patched and<br>
> repatched over the years. Is it time to completely reroof? You
would<br>
> probably gain a lot of new capacity removing a few extra pounds of
old<br>
> roofing.<br>
><br>
> Does the ‘decking’ need to span or be elevated over the old roof.
You can<br>
> get cem-board panels (2x4,4x4,4x8) designed for recover of old roofs
that<br>
> would provide a flat walking surface at about 2lbs per foot. This is
3/8”<br>
> thickness but could be put on rpl sleepers or even thinset mortared
to<br>
> rockwool boards (which could provide for some drainage and
insulation at<br>
> less weight). They could be painted stained or even stuccoed.
Perlite<br>
> recover boards are even lighter (aobut 1lb but need more surface
protection<br>
> from elements. These materials are typically fire and wind rated
for<br>
> approvals everywhere for a roof application.<br>
><br>
> If you want to take a cottage craft approach you could cut rockwool
board<br>
> into patio stone shapes and stucco skin them with a little steel
or<br>
> fibreglass mesh (think concrete canoe). Similar to foam rocks these
can be<br>
> surprisingly strong.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I suspect that this issue is being pondered by every deck team in
NYC<br>
> - What decking will satisfy code, weight requirements and
aesthetics.<br>
> RPL may do code and weight but definitely not everyone likes the
look<br>
> of it. Aerated concrete pavers?<br>
> Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>
><br>
> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br>
>
<a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com" eudora="autourl">
www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>
> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Tim Vireo Keating<br>
> <t.keating@rainforestrelief.org> wrote:<br>
>> The issue in NYC is not combustability but flame-spread. That's
the test<br>
>> that yields the typical Class A rating, as far as I am aware.
Ipe was<br>
>> assumed to be Class A because importers said it was. I spoke
with the main<br>
>> researcher at the US Forest Service Forest Products Lab who
challenged<br>
>> this,<br>
>> given that no one had ever been able to produce the actual
studies that<br>
>> were<br>
>> being quoted by importers/resellers. He told others calling him
for<br>
>> verification to do their owns testing. Finally, someone did and
the<br>
>> results<br>
>> yielded a Class B rating. Thus, all those roofs decked with ipê
beyond 20%<br>
>> will likely go up just as readily as good oak. And the other
issue when<br>
>> doing this testing is that, of course, ipê, like all woods, will
lose<br>
>> mechanical properties over time. The more porous the wood gets
as it ages,<br>
>> the more likely it is to support the spreading of a fire. For
some reason,<br>
>> I<br>
>> don't think this factor has ever been considered (unless people
have been<br>
>> told that that (spurious) Class A rating will only last for 10
years and<br>
>> then the building owner must replace the material with new
ipê.<br>
>> IMHO, the only answer to this of which I know would be RPL.<br>
>> tim keating<br>
>> At 10:21 AM -0400 4/4/11, John Straube wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> There seems to be some confusion.<br>
>><br>
>> Non-combustible in the code does not mean "it does not
burn". It means it<br>
>> passes a silly ASTM test, and does not lose more than x % of
weight (I<br>
>> think<br>
>> x=10%).<br>
>><br>
>> All wood I have seen fails this, even fire retardent wood,
because it off<br>
>> gases enough water and oils that it fails.<br>
>><br>
>> Gypsum looses too much mass, and would fail, except that it
is<br>
>> grandfathered.<br>
>><br>
>> Fiberglass does not work. Concrete and steel do.<br>
>><br>
>> So Gennaro, do you mean non combustible or do you mean fire
rated or<br>
>> something else?<br>
>><br>
>> On 2011-04-04, at 9:47 AM, Ron Cascio wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Check this material out;<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://www.timbersilwood.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.timbersilwood.com/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Can't wait to try some of it out sometime soon.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Ron<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>><br>
>> From: David Bergman<br>
>><br>
>> To: Green Building ; Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>
>><br>
>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 12:13 AM<br>
>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck<br>
>><br>
>> Gennaro,<br>
>><br>
>> Add "eco material" to that description and it becomes
an old quest of<br>
>> mine.<br>
>> Are you talking about something to sit directly on the
"real" roof? About<br>
>> the best I could come up with when I last tackled the question
was<br>
>> lightweight concrete roof pavers -- not all that eco though
maybe there<br>
>> are<br>
>> some made with flyash.<br>
>><br>
>> In terms of wood, NYC used to accept Ipe, but I heard a rumor
they stopped<br>
>> when the fire rating claims didn't prove out. And, of course,
there was<br>
>> the<br>
>> rainforest sourcing issue.<br>
>><br>
>> I've looked for fire-rated recycled plastic lumber from time to
time, but<br>
>> have not yet found any. (Tim V-K: any updates you've heard
of?)<br>
>><br>
>> There is a group called Brooklyn Bridge Forest<br>
>> (
<a href="http://www.brooklynbridgeforest.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.brooklynbridgeforest.com/</a>) that is trying to set up a<br>
>> sustainable source for greenheart for maintaining the Brooklyn
Bridge. I'm<br>
>> not sure what kind of fire rating greenheart does or doesn't
have.<br>
>> (According to one site I just googled, it carries a
"high/medium" rating.)<br>
>><br>
>> David<br>
>> David Bergman RA LEED AP<br>
>> DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING +
FURNITURE<br>
>> architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture<br>
>> bergman@cyberg.com www.cyberg.com<br>
>> 241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002<br>
>> t 212 475 3106 f 212 677 7291<br>
>> At 08:01 PM 4/3/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hello,<br>
>> Can anyone suggest a lightweight non-combustible deck material
for a roof<br>
>> deck?<br>
>> In New York a brownstone has an average flat roof of 700sq.ft.
The law<br>
>> only<br>
>> allows 20% of it to be covered with combustible decking, which
isn't much<br>
>> of<br>
>> a deck. Yet the non-combustible decking is too heavy for the old
roofs.<br>
>> Suggestion?<br>
>><br>
>> Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>
>><br>
>> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com" eudora="autourl">
www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>
>> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
>> Checked by AVG -
<a href="http://www.avg.com" eudora="autourl">www.avg.com</a><br>
>> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3548 - Release Date:
04/03/11<br>
>> 13:40:00<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
>><br>
>> Dr John Straube, P.Eng.<br>
>><br>
>> Associate Professor<br>
>><br>
>> University of Waterloo<br>
>><br>
>> Dept of Civil Eng. & School of Architecture<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://www.buildingscience.com" eudora="autourl">
www.buildingscience.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the
land and the<br>
>> measure of our bodies are the same..."<br>
>>
- Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce<br>
>> chief<br>
>> ____________________________________________<br>
>> R A I N
F O R E S
T R E
L I E F<br>
>> Sparing the World's Rainforests
from Consumption<br>
>> Rainforest Relief works to protect the world's remaining
tropical<br>
>> and temperate rainforests by reducing the demand for the
products<br>
>> and materials of rainforest destruction such as timber and
paper,<br>
>> industrial agricultural products such as bananas, beef,
coffee,<br>
>> chocolate and cut flowers, and mining products<br>
>> such as oil, gold and aluminum.<br>
>> New York, NY: (917) 543-4064<br>
>> Portland, OR: (503) 236-3031<br>
>>
<a href="http://www.rainforestrelief.org" eudora="autourl">
http://www.rainforestrelief.org</a><br>
>> info@rainforestrelief.org<br>
>> Church Street Station * PO Box 298 * NY, NY 10008-0298<br>
>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
>><br>
>>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
>><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----<br>
> No virus found in this message.<br>
> Checked by AVG -
<a href="http://www.avg.com" eudora="autourl">www.avg.com</a><br>
> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3557 - Release Date:
04/07/11<br>
><br>
> ________________________________<br>
><br>
> No virus found in this message.<br>
><br>
> Checked by AVG -
<a href="http://www.avg.com" eudora="autourl">www.avg.com</a><br>
> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3557 - Release Date:
04/07/11<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br>
><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<br>
><br><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org<br><br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<br>
David Bergman RA LEED AP<br>
<font size=2 color="#808080"><b>DAVID BERGMAN</b> ARCHITECT / <b>FIRE
& WATER</b> LIGHTING + FURNITURE<br>
</font><font color="#808080">architecture . interiors .
</font><font color="#008080">ecodesign</font><font color="#808080"> .
lighting . furniture<br>
</font><font size=2 color="#808080">bergman@cyberg.com
<a href="http://www.cyberg.com" eudora="autourl"><u>www.cyberg.com</a></u>
</font><font color="#808080"> <br>
</font><font size=2 color="#808080">241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY
10002<br>
</font><font color="#808080">t </font><font size=2 color="#808080">212
475 3106 f 212 677 7291</font><font color="#808080">
</font></body>
</html>