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<title>Re: [Greenbuilding] building floor on top of rigid foam...
(basement/garage retrofit)</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I missed this thread somehow. I can testify that putting a floor
directly on eps foam is a great system. I have done this in a number of
renovations, new homes and a school. The basic spec. is rigid eps board
(minimum 4”) on a level surface w/ t&g ply sheathing laminated
directly to the foam with a suitable adhesive. That is it. The level surface
does not have to be concrete – it can be a granular base (sand). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The real point of this approach is to avoid the use of concrete
or in the case of insulating on existing concrete to isolate from moisture and
to minimize the use of unnecessary materials. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As for materials the ‘suitable adhesive’ is
generally specified as a polyurethane foam adhesive (enerbond or equiv.). If
the finished floor is to be ¾” solid wood nailed - I specify a min.
5/8” t&g ply sheathing. If it is tile I generally specify either a
thickset mortar directly on the foam (w/reinf.) or an additional layer of
½” ply laminated and fastened @ 3” o.c. I’ve found that most
contractors get the concept pretty quickly but the trick is that in putting
down the ply it needs to be flattened and weighted down while the adhesive sets
(concrete block, buckets with sand, etc...)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For your application I would eliminate any subfloor wood framing
(sleepers). Waste of time and material. eps boards can be ordered cut to the
thickness needed for the finished product. Using foam on an existing slab it is
nice to have additional thickness – 5-6” foam can span any
deflections or defects in the concrete. I would spot adhere the foam to the
concrete. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Essentially the finished floor (eps and ply) is a weight bearing
floating floor that can carry standard interior partition loads well. It is a
pretty nice floor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>RT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> April 16, 2011 3:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> satjiwan@alumni.brandeis.edu; Green Building<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] building floor on top of rigid foam...
(basement/garage retrofit)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:53:26 -0400, sat jiwan
ikle-khalsa <br>
<<a href="mailto:satjiwan_khalsa@hotmail.com">satjiwan_khalsa@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> we're aiming for about R20 floor insulation (rough passiv haus goal
for <br>
> our region - Mid Atlantic USA). we're thinking to put 2 layers or
two <br>
> inch rigid foam on top of the existing slab then build a floor with
2x <br>
> framing members sufficient to bring the height up so 3/4" plywood
and <br>
> carpet on top will meet the other room's height.<br>
><br>
> would Roxul rigid foam work? is it specified for load applications?<br>
<br>
My first question would be:<br>
<br>
"Why is (steenking,off-gassing, allergen-magnet) "carpet" even
being <br>
mentioned ?"<br>
<br>
My second question would be:<br>
<br>
"Why would one choose to use extruded polystyrene in that situation<br>
<br>
My third question would be:<br>
<br>
"Why bother with the wood framing ?<br>
<br>
(There is no such thing as "Roxul rigid foam" as far as I am aware.)<br>
<br>
If I were doing the project, I'd use the less costly and more <br>
enviro-friendly expanded polystyrene (EPS) rather than the extruded (XPS) <br>
and leave out the wood framing/ carpet altogether and just cast a 2.5"
to <br>
3" thick concrete slab on top of the EPS, possibly colouring/stamping the <br>
concrete or laying stone or porcelain tile over if for some reason the <br>
skills are lacking to produce good quality concrete.<br>
<br>
This of course allows one the option of installing hydronic heating in
the <br>
slab if necessary (ie if taking advantage of direct gains isn't possible).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
=== * ===<br>
Rob Tom<br>
Kanata, Ontario, Canada<br>
< A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot C A ><br>
(manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit REPLY)<br>
<br>
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