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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m sorry I was trying to be humorous (on the dark green side) as well as a bit positive. I like the notion of recycling a tub and the local labour involved. On the practical side I have had to design numerous bathrooms and you have to look at the clients needs and expectations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To be fair to the client I think it depends on the design and the expectations. The tub is an artefact – even if it is renewed it will stand out unless the overall bath design supports it as the old object that it is and for that you need the client to want the old tub. You cannot make an old tub look like a modern tub – it will be shiny but it will still be the old tub. Unless the bathroom design can compensate or make use of ANY potential defects in some imaginable perfection - I would bring in a new tub. If the design and the clients interest can support the old tub I would hazard that the life of an acrylic or fibreglass tub would be equivalent to a renewed powder coated cast iron tub.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>‘Neatnik’ clients I would further hazard would probably be more comfortable with a new tub. I have had clients that simply were fanatics about old cast iron tubs. I have had clients that have purchased new cast iron tubs that have required significant floor engineering – but these were clients that actually took baths that typically grew up with cast iron tubs and could not be dissuaded . Next to overbuilt v8 heating systems tubs are high on the list of overbuilt and underused items in a home that are part of what I call ‘cultural design environmental failure’ – similar to 3 way switches . <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Free standing cast iron tubs take a lot of hot water to get to stay at temp. A lot of the people that are addicted to this type of bath run the hot water at a steady flow to keep the tub warm – these are not people that I will design a freestanding tub for (if I have any influence) this person requires a fully enclosed tub designs where you can create a fully foamed enclosure that will retain heat for as long as it takes for them to relax and get out of the tub.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So on my checklist for this I would probably have<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Client needs – client education/advocacy?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Long term energy considerations (hot water usage will outweigh any other cost if people actually use the bath – but most people don’t take baths and the bath is a decorative object)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Local employment – local supply?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Bergman [mailto:bergman@cyberg.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> July-19-11 7:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building; terrain@shaw.ca<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] renewing a cast iron tub<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>At 09:37 PM 7/19/2011, JOHN SALMEN wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Actually there is nothing wrong with an old pitted cast iron tub complete<br>with iron (or blood) stains - it holds water and if I have a bath I am going<br>to either try to read a book (without getting it wet) or stare out the<br>window. It is just not shiny and 'nice' looking.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>I agree in principle, but there are two additional factors at work here. One is that once the rest of the bathroom is renovated, the dulled or pitted old tub is going to stand out (and not in a good way), and the second is that the finish of this tub has become very hard to clean. Even if the clients weren't neatniks (which they are), this would be a problem.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Will it last? Will it be durable? - what are we comparing it to - a stock<br>portfolio?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>I hope not. Stock portfolios have done pretty badly, no?<br><br>More to the point, the conventional in-house recoating treatments -- in many or most cases -- often don't last long at all. Sometimes five years or less. I would be looking for the refinishing to last as long as the bathroom renovation is likely to last. (25 years?) Otherwise, it makes more sense to install a new tub while the walls are open.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p>David Bergman RA LEED AP<br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:gray'>DAVID BERGMAN</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:gray'> ARCHITECT / <b>FIRE & WATER</b> LIGHTING + FURNITURE<br></span><span style='color:gray'>architecture . interiors . </span><span style='color:teal'>ecodesign</span><span style='color:gray'> . lighting . furniture<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:gray'>bergman@cyberg.com <a href="http://www.cyberg.com/">www.cyberg.com</a><u> </u></span><span style='color:gray'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:gray'>241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002<br></span><span style='color:gray'>t </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:gray'>212 475 3106 f 212 677 7291</span><span style='color:gray'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>