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And relatedly, dryers ARE pretty much essential in cities. Even in our
low-rise apartment building, there's no place for outdoor drying.
(I've investigated the old fashioned pulley lines that went from building
to building or building to post, and it'd be near impossible to set up on
a one-person, let alone wide use, basis.) As to indoor drying, drying
just the "hand-wash" (i.e. delicate wash stuff that doesn't
take to dryers) takes up the bathroom and the dining area.<br><br>
And if the building has a communal (shared service) laundry room, air
drying is probably not going to be feasible there either.<br><br>
David Bergman<br><br>
At 10:51 AM 8/30/2011, Steven Tjiang wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">It is all true that
"dryers" are not essential but claiming moral superiority or
nonessentialness may work in this forum but it isn't going to work for
the general public. For that reason we do need more energy efficient
dryers like the European heat-pump dryers. But I don't see how that
is going to happen until energy prices goes up.<br><br>
---- Steve (KZ6LSD)<br><br>
<br>
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Racheli Gai
<<a href="mailto:racheli@sonoracohousing.com">
racheli@sonoracohousing.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Ben, I don't think what you said was completely stupid :)<br><br>
<dd>I think we need to differentiate between: 1- what everyone
needs, in which case saying: Since so many people don't have<br>
<dd>it, it's ok not to have it is wrong, and 2- So many things we
have that we can easily do without. eg: See all the people who
manage<br>
<dd>just fine without dryers (and if they don't manage well, it's not
because they don't have dryers.) - so perhaps dryers are not<br>
<dd>essential for having a decent and meaningful life...<br><br>
<dd>Racheli.<br><br>
<dd>On Aug 29, 2011, at 9:30 PM, Benjamin Pratt wrote:<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>Ok--I admit--that was a really stupid thing to say.<br>
<dd>Ben<br><br>
<dd>On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Kathy Cochran<br>
<dd><<a href="mailto:kathys_old_house@goldrush.com">
kathys_old_house@goldrush.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>This is a GREAT line! It made me feel so good when I hung my
sheets out on<br>
<dd>the clothes line this afternoon!<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Kathy Cochran<br><br>
<dd>San Andreas, California<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>From:
<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<dd>
[<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of
natural<br>
<dd>building<br>
<dd>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 6:50 PM<br>
<dd>To: Green Building<br>
<dd>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] drying clothes<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>What a wonderful analogy: You don't have a clothes dryer therefore
you must<br>
<dd>be poor!<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Does the same apply if I don't have an electric toothbrush, or if
the<br>
<dd>cat-flap isn't automated, or if I actually have to manually push
buttons on<br>
<dd>my heating system thermostat?<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Wow I never realised how 'poor' I am! :)<br><br>
<dd>But funny how good it feels!<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>In jest...<br><br>
<dd>Steve Satow<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd><a href="http://www.naturalbuildingsite.net">
www.naturalbuildingsite.net</a><br><br>
<dd><a href="mailto:naturalbuilding@shaw.ca">naturalbuilding@shaw.ca</a>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>On 2011-08-29, at 5:09 PM, Benjamin Pratt wrote:<br><br>
<dd>"Most of the world doesn't use clothes dryers and somehow they
manage."<br><br>
<dd>Not a great argument. Much of the people in the world don't have<br>
<dd>toilets, are malnourished, don't use birth control, don't have
access<br>
<dd>to an education or healthcare, etc ,etc, etc. Most of the people
dn't<br>
<dd>manage--at least their lives could be a whole lot better if
there<br>
<dd>were any justice in the world....<br>
<dd>I know those things are a lot more important than wrinkles. I'm
just<br>
<dd>trying to say that telling anyone that they should live as if they
are<br>
<dd>poor is not realistic. Or maybe it's what we need to save
the<br>
<dd>planet--A huge worldwide depression leading to disease and a
huge<br>
<dd>reduction of the population<br>
<dd>Ben<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<dd>On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:34 PM,
<a href="mailto:candtcampbell@juno.com">candtcampbell@juno.com</a><br>
<dd><<a href="mailto:candtcampbell@juno.com">candtcampbell@juno.com</a>
> wrote:<br><br>
<dd>I have not experimented with different detergents. My clothes are
almost<br><br>
<dd>exclusively cotton and the city water probably is medium hard. But if
I were<br><br>
<dd>to put a pair of blue jeans out to dry on a rack, I would expect the
jeans<br><br>
<dd>to be so stiff when dry that they would almost stand by
themselves.<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Hm. You say you 'would expect' this. And I sense that your
expectation would<br><br>
<dd>be that this state of affairs would be unacceptable. I wonder if you
tried<br><br>
<dd>it (the drying on a rack, and putting the clothes on afterward) and
report<br><br>
<dd>back. Most of the world doesn't use clothes dryers and somehow they
manage.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>I didn't say I couldn't manage. I'm trying to avoid potential
problems<br>
<dd>before I consider investing in equipment.<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>And badly wrinkled too. Underwear, flannel shirts and T shirts would
fare no<br><br>
<dd>better.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>I've washed all my laundry cold and dried it on the rack everywhere
I've<br><br>
<dd>lived. I've also never ironed anything except, very rarely, a shirt.
I don't<br><br>
<dd>go to weddings that often. I suppose I've been missing out all these
years,<br><br>
<dd>but honestly I'm not sure what the problem is that you've conjured in
your<br><br>
<dd>mind.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>As problems go, wrinkles are pretty insignificant. But if I can avoid
them,<br>
<dd>I will, just to be socially acceptable.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>that is not my experience with blue jeans and cotton shirts, and I've
been<br><br>
<dd>hanging clothes on the line for a long time.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Bob Waldrop, OKC<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>If you are hanging outdoors, I would think that the breeze blowing
would<br>
<dd>deal well with the wrinkles. But I would also think that you risk
soiling by<br>
<dd>birds and insects.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Nor mine. Nothing is stiff, and most of the wrinkles hang
out. Most of the<br>
<dl>
<dd>clothes are cotton.<br><br>
</dl><br><br>
<br>
<dd>Don't the clothespins themselves create pinch marks?<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>(If you hang the shirts and pants upside down, and use 2 pins at the
bottom<br>
<dl>
<dd>corners, there's often no need for an iron.)<br><br>
</dl><br><br>
<br>
<dd>Excellent tip, thanks.<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>Charles<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br><br>
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<br><br>
<br>
<dd>--<br><br>
<br>
<dd>b e n j a m i n p r a t t<br><br>
<dd>professor art+design<br>
<dd>the university of wisconsin stout<br><br>
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<br>
<dd>-- <br><br>
<br>
<dd>b e n j a m i n p r a t t<br><br>
<dd>professor art+design<br>
<dd>the university of wisconsin stout<br><br>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
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</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<br>
David Bergman RA LEED AP<br>
<font size=2 color="#808080"><b>DAVID BERGMAN</b> ARCHITECT / <b>FIRE
& WATER</b> LIGHTING + FURNITURE<br>
</font><font color="#808080">architecture . interiors .
</font><font color="#008080">ecodesign</font><font color="#808080"> .
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</font><font size=2 color="#808080">bergman@cyberg.com
<a href="http://www.cyberg.com/" eudora="autourl"><u>www.cyberg.com</a>
</u></font><font color="#808080"> <br>
</font><font size=2 color="#808080">241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY
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