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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Google borate or boron with arthritis or
cancet.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kenn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>JOHN SALMEN<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, November 05, 2011
9:17 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Greenbuilding] tung
oil</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>It is all poison to
some degree. One of the reasons I switched from ‘friendly’ water
based polyurethanes is that I found one of the chemicals used as a foaming
agent in Bona Kemi was linked to birth defects. At the time I was getting calls
from pregnant women wanting to renovate quizzing me on ‘safe’
materials. There always seems to be a trimester urge to build a nursery
or redo the floors and paint the walls. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I think the bottom
line is that there are no safe materials used in concentration.
Ironically the development of safer materials has led to people exposing
themselves more to environments that are not safe. Materials need to cure and
the byproducts need to be diluted. That still takes at least a week. We are
still in the discovery stage of a whole range of new chemicals introduced to
reduce voc. Everything is film coated these days and what was considered a
stable or inert compound a decade ago is now being viewed differently.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Michael O'Brien<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> November-04-11 10:37 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PersonName
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:PersonName></st1:place><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Greenbuilding] tung
oil<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi, guys--<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Years ago I met a woodworker who had done research on
tung oil, and came up with some papers that indicated it can accelerate the
growth of Epstein-Barr virus in the body. Here's a sample paper: <a
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6297709">www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6297709</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Epstein-Barr virus in in most people, about 95% of
adults, and usually doesn't cause problems. However, during adolescence, EBV
can cause mononucleosis.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>So, tung oil is probably safe in terms of the
exposures we experience from occasional applications. High exposure might be a
different story.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Michael O'Brien<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><a
href="mailto:obrien@hevanet.com">obrien@hevanet.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Nov 4, 2011, at 8:19 PM, JOHN SALMEN wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:12.0pt'>I have always
been a bit grumpy about packaged finishes. It is like coffee.<br>
I don't want to buy Nescafe I just want beans from some identifiable origin<br>
roasted locally with as few middle people generating profit at the expense<br>
of quality and flavour. I got really grumpy when german low voc oil finishes<br>
got trendy. Emulsified balsam oils with water and a bunch of stuff -<br>
engineered and packaged nicely and shipped across the ocean. Instructions<br>
were so complex that failure (like a Volkswagen) was unclear as to whether<br>
it was application stupidity or just ridiculous engineering. When it comes<br>
down to it most products are engineered to produce profit so the chemistry<br>
engineering is really to compensate for the low cost and quality of<br>
ingredients. <br>
<br>
Tung oil is basic but a very high quality product - i.e it is a finish that<br>
has stood on its own for centuries and is not compromised by additives. It<br>
comes from seeds from the tung tree. A deciduous tree primarily native to<br>
china. There used to be successful plantations that were set up on the<br>
American gulf coast but they got wiped out during some typhoon. I buy it raw<br>
in 5 gallon quantities and have it shipped from <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">quebec</st1:place></st1:State>. They get it from<br>
some wholesaler in ny who buys it from china and sells it in 50 gallon<br>
quantities at about a 1/3 the cost and imports directly at probably 1/100 of<br>
the cost - but at least it is a direct line to the village collecting the<br>
seeds.<br>
<br>
We have added thinners, colours, and waxes and occasionally have added<br>
borates and zinc to enhance its preservative qualities for risky exterior<br>
work. In direct sun exposure for exterior work raw oil applications (3<br>
coats) will last 2-3 years before needing an oil wipe - beyond that the wood<br>
will be exposed to deterioration which then subsequently requires more<br>
frequent maintenance. In more protected exterior areas it has done well over<br>
5 years without recoat. That is about as good as it gets for any finish.<br>
Bona Kemi finishes are not even a contender in that regard even with the<br>
loaded toxicity.<br>
<br>
I have an interesting house that we have done progressive designs for<br>
renovations. The first involved a local maple floor finished with a Bona<br>
Kemi water based polyurethane which at the time was the only decent no voc<br>
poly out there. I wasn't happy with the finish for a large number of reason<br>
so the second renovation on maple and fir flooring used tung oil. A<br>
subsequent disaster (flood) <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">reno</st1:place></st1:City>
on another portion of the house used a<br>
german balsam oil product. So we are looking at 15-10 and 8 years for the<br>
various products. The Bona Kemi finish is tired and needs renewal which is a<br>
bit of a pain, the tung oil is basically still a nice even protective finish<br>
and some worn areas simply need a little more oil that will blend in. The<br>
balsam oil looks quite splotchy and am unsure how additional finishing will<br>
blend.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Chris<br>
Koehn<br>
Sent: November-04-11 6:14 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] tung oil<br>
<br>
Check out <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Land</st1:City> <st1:State
w:st="on">Ark</st1:State></st1:place> products:<br>
<<a href="http://www.landarknw.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=18">http://www.landarknw.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=18</a>>
Their finishing oils are<br>
largely a mixture of the materials you've been asking about, and even if you<br>
don't use their product, the info on it's use may be useful to you. <br>
We use their oils on timber frames with good result. We tried a finishing<br>
oil on a walnut floor a few years ago, but had problems. I'm told <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Land</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on">Ark</st1:State></st1:place><br>
was putting a UV inhibitor into their oils that was causing the oil not to<br>
cure properly. I understand that problem has been solved now.<br>
<br>
Chris Koehn<br>
TimberGuides Design & Build<br>
<st1:place w:st="on">Vancouver Island</st1:place><br>
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