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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Okay, to address the unfeasible question I'll go backward before I go forward. I am not by any means an expert in this area, but this is the back story that I was thinking of as I wrote that message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In burning clean waste for energy, you are essentially create a company that has to operate at enough of a profit to be able to keep paying their employees and keep up with maintenance to the facility and the machinery needed to perform that task (and cover your other overhead). On top of that, these energy plants can be expensive, and the investors typically want to be paid back some amount of profit for their initial investment. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Fuels derived from clean, unrecyclable sources are often oddly shaped and require specialized material handling to put them into a form that can be efficiently burned in a power plant, and the cost of that handling can make the fuel expensive. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> These plants also typically operate in a market where they compete with some relatively inexpensive forms of power. So, the plant may not be able to sell enough power at a high enough profit to pay for the expensive fuel, the maintenance of the facility and the pay of the employees. (I'm ignoring the investors for now). Those are some factors that can make the plant unfeasible. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In some areas, there are incentives for disposing of waste (tipping fees etc) that can make up the difference in price and allow the power plant to operate at enough of a profit to ensure continued operation. (I don't get the sense that companies are making a lot of money in this area the profit off of wind turbines is a lot higher and that seems to be driving some of the growth in that area). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In addition to the obvious necessity of keeping the doors open on your facility, there's the "will of the people" in your area. In some areas, the local community is supportive of the plant, and there tends to be a positive experience, but in many areas of the country the community is less supportive and/or actively working against your facility (or proposed facility) and in those areas the experience of the people who own and run the plant can be quite different. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Erin <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>erin@trmiles.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Salmen<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 29, 2011 7:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Green Building'; 'Reuben Demling'; 'Gennaro Brooks-Church'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Another Green Myth: Garbage Incinerators Are Green Sources of Energy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am confused as to why you mention burning in the USA as ‘unfeasible’. Is it because recycling has not yet claimed the bulk of the waste and burning would divert too much of a recyclable stream?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Rasmussen<br><b>Sent:</b> November-29-11 3:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Green Building'; 'Reuben Demling'; 'Gennaro Brooks-Church'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Another Green Myth: Garbage Incinerators Are Green Sources of Energy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>With respect to burning waste to generate power, it's a lot smarter to say that it depends a lot on the waste being incinerated, and the way that it is being done. In general burning municipal waste is in the USA unfeasible, but there are fuels like waste wood and non-recyclable waste paper that can be burned cleanly to generate electricity. And like people using wood to heat their homes in efficient wood stoves, there are ways to burn clean wastes (wood, some types of crop residues, waste paper) on a municipal scale and there are places in Europe where they have several years experience doing just that under much tougher environmental rules than we have here. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>For some examples check out the Gasification Discussion List, and its web site: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Erin Rasmussen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BioEnergy Discussion List<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:erin@trmiles.com">erin@trmiles.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>