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Rockbridge County, Virginia we have been looking at this issue because we have a
waste energy plant proposal for consideration. It is less wasteful than a
land fill. However, that is an extreme low standard. I am a
passionate advocate for zero waste. This company tries to claim this title
by reducing the volume of waste to ash and some emissions. If those were
the only two choices, let incinerate. However, this system depends on the
generation of waste and it destroys any future resource value for that
material. When peak oil, peak copper, peak bauxite, finally kicks in, we
will want the material that is being destroyed by landfill or
incineration. I have read that it takes 3.5kwh of energy to replace the
resource value as recycle feed stock for the amount of paper needed to generate
1kwh of electricity. Therefore, destroying the paper is a net loss of
2.5kwh of electricity. It would be 3.5kwh is landfilled. Now, paper,
a wood product is renewable. However the common energy sources used to
make the paper are not renewable. The worse aspect of waste to energy is
destroying the minerals and chemicals in our other products that should be
recycled in an enlightened society. I am an advocate for "pay as you
throw" where consumer pay for the actual cost of responsibly managing
waste. I also advocate for "extended producer responsibility" where
products are returned to the retailer or producer to manage. That is where
real substantive, nuance recovery can take place when the producer is
financially responsible for cost of managing waste. Then the business
plans and product designers will get with the program of achieving high recovery
because that will be the most cost affective way to manage the waste.
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<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></FONT>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jason@amicusgreen.com href="mailto:jason@amicusgreen.com">Jason
Holstine</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=Greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:Greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding
Listserv</A> ; <A title=9watts@gmail.com
href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com">'Reuben Demling'</A> ; <A
title=info@ecobrooklyn.com href="mailto:info@ecobrooklyn.com">'Gennaro
Brooks-Church'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Another
Green Myth: Garbage Incinerators Are Green Sources of Energy</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Here in Montgomery County, Maryland, a power plant was
converted from coal to (domestic) waste incineration. I can’t see any argument
that this is not an improvement in all considerations. I formerly served on a
local air quality advisory board and we were briefed on the plant’s
performance, including emissions and output. The level of pollution reduction
was impressive—capturing mercury, particulate matter, the usual NOx and SOx,
but also various chemicals that would otherwise come from burning those
various products.<BR><BR>It’s also worth noting that the county (with a
population of 1 million) has high recycling goals and rates (at least for the
US)--they are a few points away from the goal of achieving 50% residential
recycling rates of plastics, metals and paper. So, it’s not like they are
burning in lieu of recycling; the active goal is both, and landfill rates are
very low.<BR><BR>Now, arguing that incineration should be classified as a
renewable—especially on par with wind, solar, etc.--is laughable. But it’s a
political reality.<BR><BR>In the end, this is a case of not letting the
perfect be the enemy of the good. And in no way should it be deemed unfeasible
for much of NA.<BR><BR><BR><BR>On 11/29/11 10:12 PM, "John Salmen" <<A
href="terrain@shaw.ca">terrain@shaw.ca</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT color=#1f497d>I may be coming in to this late
as I have been offline. Europe does burn waste for fuel to a greater degree
than N.A. The waste that is burned is generally classed as ‘nonrecyclable’
or probably more realistically as ‘uneconomical’ and conversion of that
waste to fuel is considered better and more controllable than what we
currently do with ‘nonrecyclable’ which is landfill. Landfill is a
north American real estate thing so essentially is fought over by small
communities who want the cash and are willing to devote some chunk of real
estate to it. As to whether preserving it as landfill or utilizing it as
energy is better or worse is I think the basic question. We don’t consider
landfill as preservation at this point but environmental standards do
require isolation from any potential for contamination so it works as a form
of preservation (as to how well it is done is another
question).<BR> <BR>I am a bit mixed on the issue as I really don’t
think we are capable of making good decisions about waste resources – and
they are resources. If burning for energy was a net zero equation it would
make sense but it can’t be as we lose too much energy in the production of
waste to recoup it. The scarcity of resources represented by our waste may
however in the future represent some gain and how we preserve that waste is
I think probably more important to me than how we ‘dispose’ of
it.<BR> <BR>I am confused as to why you mention burning in the USA as
‘unfeasible’. Is it because recycling has not yet claimed the bulk of the
waste and burning would divert too much of a recyclable
stream?<BR> <BR>John<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=2><FONT face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><B>From:</B> <A
href="greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Erin Rasmussen<BR><B>Sent:</B> November-29-11 3:12
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Green Building'; 'Reuben Demling'; 'Gennaro
Brooks-Church'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Another Green Myth:
Garbage Incinerators Are Green Sources of
Energy<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">With
respect to burning waste to generate power, it's a lot smarter to say that
it depends a lot on the waste being incinerated, and the way that it is
being done. In general burning municipal waste is in the USA
unfeasible, but there are fuels like waste wood and non-recyclable waste
paper that can be burned cleanly to generate electricity. And like
people using wood to heat their homes in efficient wood stoves, there are
ways to burn clean wastes (wood, some types of crop residues, waste paper)
on a municipal scale and there are places in Europe where they have several
years experience doing just that under much tougher environmental rules than
we have here. <BR> <BR>For some examples check out the Gasification
Discussion List, and its web site: <BR><A
href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR> <BR>Cheers,<BR>Erin
Rasmussen<BR>BioEnergy Discussion List<BR><A
href="erin@trmiles.com">erin@trmiles.com</A><BR> <BR> <BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><B>From:</B> <A
href="greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Carmine Vasile<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 21, 2011
4:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Reuben Demling; Gennaro Brooks-Church<BR><B>Cc:</B> GB
Forum<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Another Green Myth: Garbage
Incinerators Are Green Sources of Energy<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Reuben & Gennaro: Here's another Green Myth:
In</SPAN></FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT color=#061826><FONT
face=Arial>cinerators that generate power by burning trash should be
eligible for state renewable energy subsidies. See Comment #1 below Re:
"</FONT></FONT><FONT face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><B><I>State
PSC delays vote on incinerators</I></B>", By JENNIFER SMITH (Newsday,
11/18/11):<BR></FONT></SPAN></FONT>
<UL>
<LI><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face=Arial>Had
Jennifer Smith and <FONT color=#061826>commission members wanting to know
more before deciding </FONT>Googled "T<B><I>itle V air permit covanta
northport</I></B>" they would have found plenty of reasons to support the
<FONT color=#061826>staff recommendations to reject Covanta's petition --
like the GreenAction Fact Sheet @ </FONT><A
href="http://greenaction.org/stanislaus/covantafactsheet.shtml">http://greenaction.org/stanislaus/covantafactsheet.shtml</A>
<<A
href="http://greenaction.org/stanislaus/covantafactsheet.shtml">http://greenaction.org/stanislaus/covantafactsheet.shtml</A>>
, which states:<FONT color=#061826> </FONT><B>The Covanta Waste-to-Energy
Garbage Incinerator in Crow's Landing Pollutes Our Air! Stop Toxic
Pollution from the Covanta Garbage Incinerator in Crow's
Landing!<BR></B></FONT></SPAN></FONT></LI></UL><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT
face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Carmine<BR></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">gfxtechnology.com<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR>
<HR align=center SIZE=3 width="95%">
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