<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PlaceName"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PostalCode"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="State"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="Street"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="address"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Calibri;
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'> <st1:PersonName w:st="on"><span
class=style11>Poppy Behrens</span></st1:PersonName></span></font></b><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><b><font size=2
color="#00929d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'><br>
Publisher</span></font></b><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=699
style='width:524.25pt' id=table1>
<tr height=40 style='height:30.0pt'>
<td width=120 rowspan=4 style='width:1.25in;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;
height:30.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a href="http://www.minico.com/"><font
color="#00929d"><span style='color:#00929D;text-decoration:none'><img
border=0 width=120 height=76 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCCAE8.BBD71440"></span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="http://www.minico.com/"></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=533 height=40 style='width:399.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;
height:30.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height=15 style='height:11.25pt'>
<td height=15 style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:11.25pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:11.25pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'> MiniCo </span></b></span></font><b><font
size=1 color="#00929d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'> <span class=style3>| </span></span></font></b><b><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">2531 W. Dunlap
Avenue</st1:address></st1:Street> </span></font></b><span
class=style3><b><font size=1 color="#00929d" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'> |</span></font></b></span><b><font
size=1 color="#00929d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b><b><font size=1
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Phoenix</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">AZ</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">85021</st1:PostalCode></st1:place>
</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height=1 style='height:.75pt'>
<td height=1 bgcolor="#00A4B7" style='background:#00A4B7;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;
height:.75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height=14 style='height:10.5pt'>
<td height=14 style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:10.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:10.5pt'><b><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>
Web: <a href="http://www.ministoragemessenger.com/"
title="http://www.ministoragemessenger.com/"><font color="#009999"><span
style='color:#009999;text-decoration:none'>ministoragemessenger.com</span></font></a>
Fax: </span></font></b><b><font size=1 color="#00929d" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'>602.308.6379</span></font></b><b><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> In AZ: </span></font></b><span class=style3><b><font
size=1 color="#00929d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'>602.678.3579</span></font></b></span><b><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> Toll Free: </span></font></b><span class=style3><b><font
size=1 color="#00929d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#00929D;font-weight:bold'>800.528.1056</span></font></b></span><b><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> </span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img border=0 width=701 height=11 id="_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:image002.jpg@01CCCAE8.BBD71440" name="_x0000_i1027"></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Straube<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, December 31, 2011
10:48 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Nick Pyner<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> '<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Green</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Greenbuilding]
Legionaires disease and water temperature</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Who on this list is casually dismissing the codes (no
one I heard)? And how many on the list dont have the codes you have in your
region (e.g., most)?<br>
<br>
We were discussing what the actual risks were, and you dismissed (casually or
not I cant say) the factual scientific information because, as far as I can
tell, it was not the same as what your code tells you to do. In short, you did
not seem to like the results of the "homework" that others were
presenting.<br>
<br>
Mike O'Brien's list is supported by experience and pretty solid research going
back decades. <br>
<br>
Based on the information in the discussion, someone in the <st1:country-region
w:st="on">US</st1:country-region>, where codes dont require 60C (140 F) and
45/50 supply (most of the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>),
could now make an informed choice about setting their electric storage tank to
60C (to control Legionnaires) and use a tempering valve to reduce supply temp
to 48C (120F) to reduce scalding risk. Even though the code does not
require it.<br>
<br>
And some of the professionals on the list could now assemble the information to
support setting the hotwater temperature in their instantaneous or storage gas heater
to 50C in code jurisdictions where there are rules of 60C. Seems like you
already have that in your code for instantaneous gas, we do not have that in <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ontario</st1:place></st1:State>.<br>
<br>
And then of course you need to give some thought to the distribution system. As
we move from copper to PEX for supply water, the risk caused by stagnant water
clearly goes up, but I have not seen the studies to quantify this. There
are lots of good practice things to do that can manage this risk well
however. <br>
<br>
Dr John Straube, P.Eng.<br>
<a href="http://www.BuildingScience.com">www.BuildingScience.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On 11-12-30 11:29 PM, Nick Pyner wrote:<br>
> Indeed. And like I said - if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> you have codes, that is where you look<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > first. I didn't say anything about
following rules blindly,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> I'm<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > currently in the business of trying to
change them, but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> casually<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > dismissing them is not usually a good idea,
particulalrly in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> this<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > arena.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > Nick Pyner<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > Dee Why NSW<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > -----Original Message----- From: John
Salmen<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > [<a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca">mailto:terrain@shaw.ca</a>]<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > Funny comment to make.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > If you do something different (aka not
follow the rules<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> blindly) then<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > in terms of community and pushing the
boundaries you do need<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> to do<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > the homework<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> > <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>