<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In Japan the majority still don’t own driers (combination of high energy cost and space). Combo machines (washer/spinner/dryer) are more common than the microwave dryer they manufacture. So they use balconies and have some specific washing products to deal with musty clothes. Rainy season is a problem and damp clothes are often worn. I think part of it is attitudes towards clothing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So what I find interesting is what we use dryers for – which is predominantly for an oversupply of cheap fabrics and clothing (why do we think thick towels are nice?) – like our oversupply of cheap everything. I buy few clothes but typically expensive wools, merinos and sport clothing that are quick dry and strong dirt resistant fabrics – . Lots of quick drying fabrics for sheets and towels available, bamboo, linen, lots of synthetics. With the aging population it has become a bit of a market item. I have a problem now with buying new appliances as the control boards seem to fail after 3-5 years on everything. I would pay double if I was ensured of 15 years service from an appliance without paying triple in maintenance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So I don’t dry my clothes and my teenagers have caught on (or caught my expensive clothing tastes). There is always a drying rack sitting somewhere inconvenient but you get used to it. We have a ceiling drying rack over the hot water heater and it has been on my list to build a convective closet (hard to fit in a 1026sq.ft. house) – which I think is the best option as it is basic architecture and can adapt to whatever inefficient technology is out there for venting and dehumidifying. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Straube<br><b>Sent:</b> July-22-12 3:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> Benjamin Pratt<br><b>Cc:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] ENERGY STAR Clothes Dryers Program Launch<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Paybacks make no sense unless we know the cost of energy and the cost of the product.<br>As an example, in Germany the Bosch </span>WTW86560 costs about $2000-2200. This is a lot. But electricity costs 20 cents a kWh and this would save 650 kWh/yr ($130) for a normal family of four relative to an electric dryer. If the electric drier is $500, then the payback is more like 12 years assuming electric prices never go up (not a good bet). <br>If this product was available in Long Island New York, the payback would be better, in the order of 10 years.<br>Given that the average clothes drier lasts around 15 years, it makes sense in these situations. It would not make sense economically in areas with 6 cent power or the national average of 12 cents or so.<br>I would buy one for the same reason some people buy Prius' : it is not payback, but the desire to harm the environment less if I can afford to.<br><br>It is odd to have a discussion on payback when others are saying we should not even consider using clothes driers as it is always dry and sunny outside when they do their laundry!<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dr John Straube, P.Eng. <br><a href="http://www.BuildingScience.com">www.BuildingScience.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On 12-07-22 5:35 PM, Benjamin Pratt wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><pre>Quick google search found this nice little paper on the subject of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>heat pump clothes dyers<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://eec.ucdavis.edu/aceee/2010/data/papers/2224.pdf">http://eec.ucdavis.edu/aceee/2010/data/papers/2224.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>With a payback period of at least 27 years, they are hard to justify.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>However, I would expect the payback to be shorter if energy prices<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>rise (although I only skimmed the paper so I don't know if the author<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>took that into account).<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>OF course, hybrid cars are popular, and their payback period takes<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>many years. But I suspect that clothes dyers don't have the appeal, or<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>express one's values, as much as a Prius does.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-Ben<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 3:29 PM, John Straube <a href="mailto:jfstraube@gmail.com"><jfstraube@gmail.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Heat pump condensing clothes driers have ratings of around 250 kWh per year vs 900 for straight electric. These use almost 1/4 as much energy.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>You just can't buy them here. They are available in Australia Scandinavian europe japan.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></div></body></html>