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<FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Water-lox is toxic. It’s polymerized tung oil...basterdized and chemicalized. only tung oil in ancestry.<BR>
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On 1/13/13 10:27 PM, "John Salmen" <<a href="terrain@shaw.ca">terrain@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT COLOR="#1F497D">That was my bad luck as well. Black spots from hell<BR>
I’ve had no experience with waterlox and the website doesn’t say what it is – most advertised tung oil products are ‘tung oil finishes’ which mostly contain linseed oil. For smaller quantities I’ve been purchasing pure tung oil from a montreal supplier<BR>
<a href="http://www.swingpaints.com/2142us_can.htm">http://www.swingpaints.com/2142us_can.htm</a> <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> Greenbuilding [<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Clarke Olsen<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> January-13-13 7:13 PM<BR>
<B>To:</B> Green Building<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] wood treatment<BR>
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I have had bad luck with Linseed oil: cut 25% with thinner, it developed black spots on a south facing door.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Who would have thought one could grow mold in direct sun! What do you think of Water-lox?<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13pt'>Clarke Olsen<BR>
clarkeolsendesign.com <<a href="http://clarkeolsendesign.com">http://clarkeolsendesign.com</a>> <BR>
373 route 203<BR>
Spencertown, NY 12165 <BR>
USA<BR>
518-392-4640<BR>
<a href="colsen@taconic.net">colsen@taconic.net</a><BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>On Jan 13, 2013, at 9:26 PM, John Salmen wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I am not a fan of linseed oil for exterior as it is attractive as a food – so it blackens, mildews, etc. People argue about this saying it is stable once it is catalyzed but its an oil with limited inherent anti-microbial properties and in my experience in a moist environment it is just food for biological activity.<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">Any coating on wood as a ‘preservative’ is sacrificial (even the toxic ones) so it does come back to what the natural properties of the wood are. Typically ‘wood’ exposed to air, some moisture and sunlight loses about a π” of surface in a 100 years. Obviously if kept saturated or in humid conditions other biological activity will hasten that. So if installed nicely above soil levels and well aired most surfaces can survive. Problem is they get grey and checked and splintery (that rugged look). So people want to have some finish that keeps them looking newer. Ironically most surface finishes can retain moisture so can actually hasten decay. Wood moves and cracks so any finish will also crack and allow moisture, swelling – further deteriorating the finish. You can’t guarantee a finish unless its renewed.<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">Things I have had success with on untreated wood<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">-</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Torching wood (literally burning it with a torch and brushing off the loose fibres and then oiling), very beautiful finish with nice silvery greys and recessed grain<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">-</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Tung oil (good inherent anti-microbial properties) thinned with turpentine (less toxic than citrus in my mind) for the first coat and applied un-thinned for a second coat (can be mixed with different pigments for some added sun protection)<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">-</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Tung oil with a little zinc sulphate for moister areas (never really noticed any improvement –but possible additional protection at lower toxicity for the short term)<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">-</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Tung oil with beeswax and turpentine (again a beautiful finish with possibly some added anti-microbial from the beeswax but its mostly about look)<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">-</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Recently have done a project with pennofin verde as a packaged product as a ‘safe’ finish that clients can renew easily (as it comes in a package). Curious to see how it works over time (just an exterior/interior finish with some uv protection)<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">Note – tung oil needs to be pure raw tung oil<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#1F497D">I am a fan of newer wood products treated with sodium silicate for extreme wood protection (sill plates, etc.) but again I don’t think wood needs to be exposed to extreme conditions or can be detailed appropriately.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> Greenbuilding [<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Brad Guy<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> January-13-13 12:06 PM<BR>
<B>To:</B> Green Building<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] wood vinegar as non-toxic wood treatment<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Garamond"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>I have samples of Accoya and tried to use it on a deck, however it was impossible to justify the cost. It really does smell like vinegar.<BR>
Aware of the thermally treated methods, which are for new woods. Was hoping for something we could apply to salvaged wood, whether soaked or sprayed. <BR>
We could not duplicate a kiln, and although possible to send this wood to one of those treaters, I imagine they want a large quantity and probably charge large sum, not to mention shipping it there and back.<BR>
As I understand it boric acid is great except for the solubility, and it is then the fixing of it that poses the problem..<BR>
The old time method of linseed oil and turpentine seems to come up, neither are exactly benign.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Garamond"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Reclaim + Remake Symposium, April 11-13, 2013<BR>
<a href="http://architecture.cua.edu/reclaimremake">http://architecture.cua.edu/reclaimremake</a><BR>
Registration Opens December 14, 2012<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Garamond"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Brad Guy, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP BD+C<BR>
Associate Director<BR>
Center for Building Stewardship<BR>
Assistant Professor<BR>
School of Architecture and Planning<BR>
The Catholic University of America<BR>
Washington, DC 20064<BR>
c. 814-571-8659<BR>
<a href="GUY@cua.edu">GUY@cua.edu</a><BR>
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<FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> christian corson <<a href="chris@ecocor.us">chris@ecocor.us</a>><BR>
<B>To:</B> Green Building <<a href="greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:52 PM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] wood vinegar as non-toxic wood treatment<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Haven't had a client that wants to afford it yet. There are other products on the residential market that are just as responsible but less coin. Like Cambia.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>As nice as Accoya is, it is a boutique veneer reserved unfortunately for budgets like the Bullet Center ( not that it was used there) Its hard to convince people to spend the money on plyboo and the like.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Spend the money on the shell, windows, and ventilation then tack on $30,000.00 siding packages.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Sure is purdy tough.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>c<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#FF6600"><I>Christian Corson<BR>
EcoCor Design/Build<BR>
</I></FONT><FONT COLOR="#3333FF">ecocor.us</FONT> <<a href="http://ecocor.us/">http://ecocor.us/</a>> <BR>
<FONT COLOR="#3333FF"><a href="chris@ecocor.us">chris@ecocor.us</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:chris@ecocor.us">mailto:chris@ecocor.us</a>> <BR>
<FONT COLOR="#FF6600">207 930-5088 <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Philip Proefrock <<a href="architect@cornellbox.com">architect@cornellbox.com</a>> wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Are you thinking about things like Accoya treated wood? They use a<BR>
process called acetylization, which uses acetic acid in a pressure<BR>
treatment application to produce weather-resistant wood; it's not just a<BR>
brush-on process.<BR>
<BR>
Here's an article with some additional information (and a few images,<BR>
including a wooden road bridge made with this wood):<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://www.jetsongreen.com/2011/05/accoya-durable-nontoxic-exterior-wood.html">http://www.jetsongreen.com/2011/05/accoya-durable-nontoxic-exterior-wood.html</a><BR>
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>From what I understand of the process, it needs heat and pressure to<BR>
work; it's not just the presence of vinegar that provides the<BR>
protection. But this is a pretty water-resistant material once it's<BR>
been treated. It is used for a variety of exposed purposes.<BR>
<BR>
Philip Proefrock, AIA<BR>
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> Has anyone on this list ever used wood vinegar or any other kind of<BR>
> vinegar as a wood preservative/treatment ?<BR>
> If so, can you indicate the results and where you got it in the USA ?<BR>
><BR>
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