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<DIV>I am not clear on what you are saying. Are you saying simply applying
overlay material (as was originally used in a bathroom, which is not thermal
mass so was not an issue re overlay vs. bare concrete) will not work, that
something else is required? Or a layer between the concrete and the
overlay?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also my understanding is density isn’t the issue specifically re thermal
mass, rather is an issue of earth materials (stone, water, clay, etc.) vs.
non-earth materials.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Re the slab, it appears the cement was left sitting in the truck multiple
hours with no retardant added and a very excessive amount of water was added,
curing/finishing was likely improper, and possibly more. I probably didn’t
mention the very severe cracking throughout the floor in my original post.
People also have different opinions on whether one can just cover a defective
slab or if cracking will cause problems in the future as well. Some of those
issues are still be sorted out. Meantime, I’m focusing on the thermal mass
aspect of overlay atop a slab.</DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=terrain@shaw.ca
href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca">John Salmen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 13, 2013 10:58 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Green Building'</A> ; <A
title=topher@greenfret.com
href="mailto:topher@greenfret.com">topher@greenfret.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Passive solar home--concrete overlay re
thermalmass</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">The
bonding of a tile or dissimilar material to a concrete slab usually requires a
separation or slip sheet of some sort as well as a trowel pattern that will
create air pockets. This is different that simply a concrete resurfacing
material. Resurfacing is typically a very finely graded cement product with
modifiers to allow for bonding and movement. The density of these materials
would be typically high possibly exceeding the concrete slab. I can’t see an
issue that would involve removing a slab unless it is totally f_____ for other
reasons.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext">
Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Vadurro, Rob, EMNRD<BR><B>Sent:</B> May-13-13 8:07
AM<BR><B>To:</B> topher@greenfret.com; Green Building<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[Greenbuilding] Passive solar home--concrete overlay re thermal
mass<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">I
believe the concern is the transfer of heat between different materials. I can’t
remember where I saw it, but there was a table showing the transferring heat
between base and finish materials, say tile to concrete slab below in passive
solar conditions and the rate of transfer was much less than one might think.
The joint between the two impeded the heat transfer, in other words. I would
think an acrylic additive may impede the transfer even more. The best is always
to not cover the slab, only color it, if heat retention in the slab is the
goal.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Rob
Vadurro, AIA<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Park
Architect<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">New
Mexico State Parks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">1220
South Saint Francis Drive<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Santa
Fe, NM 87505<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">505-476-3383<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">505-476-3361
fax</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Baskerville Old Face','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext">
Greenbuilding [<A
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Topher<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 13, 2013 8:39
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Green Building<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Passive
solar home--concrete overlay re thermal mass<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US>On 5/13/2013 1:07 AM, KTOT (g)
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US>Does anyone have experience or knowledge
about this? Using or not using a concrete overlay product for the top layer of
a floor for thermal mass, vs. a plain darkly stained concrete slab
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><BR>A concrete
overlay product is likely to be roughly similar in thermal characteristics to a
concrete slab. Meaning that you will just have a thicker thermal
mass. It seems unlikely that you should be worried about <I>too much</I>
thermal mass in a passive solar house. The overlay product might have a
lower specific heat, or conductivity, wither of which will reduce it's
effectiveness somewhat. Remember to stick with a dark color.<BR><BR>Thank
You Kindly,<BR><BR>Corwyn<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><PRE><SPAN lang=EN-US>-- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN lang=EN-US>Topher Belknap<o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN lang=EN-US>Green Fret Consulting<o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN lang=EN-US>Kermit didn't know the half of it...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="http://www.GreenFret.com/">http://www.GreenFret.com/</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="mailto:topher@greenfret.com">topher@greenfret.com</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE></DIV>
<P>
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