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Sorry I'm better at obtuse. I don't think I can add to the answers
you've already received, here and at the other site where you have
posted. You are suggesting that there is significant change to the
thermal properties of concrete by adding a small amount of additive
to the mix. It would be great if you are right and I look forward to
reading about it. I think you have identified the bigger issue of
whether a topping would provide a durable solution, regardless of
the thermal mass obtained. <br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13-05-13 08:45 PM, KTOT (g) wrote:<br>
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<div>I do not understand your paragraph, Peter Kidd. Can you
please clarify? I understand your comment about new world of
compact insulation solutions—you’re saying different layers
wouldn’t lessen thermal mass as if they did, all insulation
would be layers of differing materials, I believe—but I
still haven’t found an answer to my question about the
modified acrylic latex resin in the overlay product.</div>
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<div>Re thermal mass, every book and article I’ve read
identifies good thermal mass materials being clay, concrete,
water, stone—and that’s pretty much it (ceramic tile being
clay, adobe being clay, etc.) If you don’t like the earth
materials definition, what is the definition of high thermal
mass materials? How are they defined scientifically,
chemically, mathematically, or in whatever way, but a very
exact, precise way? I need technical details on this.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>No, I am not at all wondering if adding a second layer
may cause problems. I am quite sure. But I have to have hard
factual data to present to the other side to get them to pay
for a total redo of the floor.</div>
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<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="peterkidd@shaw.ca"
href="mailto:peterkidd@shaw.ca">Peter Kidd</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 13, 2013 7:35 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Passive solar
home--concrete overlay re thermal mass</div>
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<div> </div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
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TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">Between different
materials! Is it anyone's experience that simply layering
materials achieves significant resistance to heat loss?
(that's not the same as "wear layers") If that works we have
a new world of compact insulation solutions ahead of us. The
followup comment about tile or other "overlays" versus an
intimately bonded new layer was about there being no air gap
or other materials to add a little resistance in the latter
case. And earth vs non-earth, that is a philosophical choice
not an issue of "thermal mass". Am I correctly recalling
that the original "slab" was two inches as well? It is
seriously cracked, and you are wondering if adding a second
relatively thin, apparently (also?) un-reinforced layer may
cause problems. What is under the current concrete layer?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13-05-13 10:06 AM, Vadurro,
Rob, EMNRD wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">I
believe the concern is the transfer of heat between
different materials. I can’t remember where I saw
it, but there was a table showing the transferring
heat between base and finish materials, say tile to
concrete slab below in passive solar conditions and
the rate of transfer was much less than one might
think. The joint between the two impeded the heat
transfer, in other words. I would think an acrylic
additive may impede the transfer even more. The best
is always to not cover the slab, only color it, if
heat retention in the slab is the goal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></span> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">Rob Vadurro, AIA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">Park Architect<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">New Mexico State Parks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">1220 South Saint Francis Drive<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">Santa Fe, NM 87505<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">505-476-3383<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d">505-476-3361 fax</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Baskerville Old
face','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:
10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';
COLOR: windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext">
Greenbuilding [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Topher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 13, 2013 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Green Building<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Passive
solar home--concrete overlay re thermal mass<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/13/2013 1:07 AM, KTOT (g)
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Does anyone have experience or
knowledge about this? Using or not using a concrete
overlay product for the top layer of a floor for
thermal mass, vs. a plain darkly stained concrete
slab <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
A concrete overlay product is likely to be roughly
similar in thermal characteristics to a concrete
slab. Meaning that you will just have a thicker
thermal mass. It seems unlikely that you should be
worried about <i>too much</i> thermal mass in a
passive solar house. The overlay product might have a
lower specific heat, or conductivity, wither of which
will reduce it's effectiveness somewhat. Remember to
stick with a dark color.<br>
<br>
Thank You Kindly,<br>
<br>
Corwyn<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Topher Belknap<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Green Fret Consulting<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Kermit didn't know the half of it...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.GreenFret.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.GreenFret.com/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:topher@greenfret.com" moz-do-not-send="true">topher@greenfret.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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