<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I would suggest that it is easier for the lay-person to subtract the fixed fees from their total bill in order to get an idea of the 'cost' of their energy use, than it is for them to wrap their head around kW-hours! But that's just my humble opinion.!<div><br></div><div>Steve.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 2013-05-22, at 8:17 PM, Reuben Deumling wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">My concern stems mostly from the distorting effects of the fixed charges that--at what are considered low consumption levels by contemporary US standards--can equal or even be more than the per unit charges. At those levels the $-value of the monthly bill is hardly useful as a basis for comparison outside of a utility territory. The more we talk about kW-<b>hours</b> the more fluent we'll all become with that concept.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Steve Satow <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:naturalbuilding@shaw.ca" target="_blank">naturalbuilding@shaw.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Sacie, I agree with you.<div><br><div>The levity and validity of your earlier comment was clear to me.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In a world over-burdened by crippling debt that holds most people in servitude to the banks, it is very understandable that most people view their world through a monetary lens. While - technically - dollars are not a measure of energy, for the majority of people they offer a useful measurement, particularly when those same people have no idea what a Btu or KW is.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Perhaps we should measure happiness by blood-endorphin levels? :)</div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Steve</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><div><div>On 2013-05-22, at 7:44 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">John, with sincere deep apologies, I did not mean to be flippant or disrespectful regarding your remarks. In fact I nearly added to what I originally wrote how grateful I am you have remained a voice on this forum, because anything you say is relevant, knowledgeable and respected by readers. If I was too light in response, I am sorry. I would never question your authority or professionalism and I truly do appreciate what you say, indeed, I generally consider it the last word in the matter.<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">It also remains true, regardless of its value as a valid assessment, most folks who consume energy do understand the concept of dollars relative to the amount of energy consumed. And therefore appreciate a reduction of money spent when they, for whatever reason, consume less.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Sacie<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:39 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jfstraube@gmail.com" target="_blank">jfstraube@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="line-height:initial"><div style="text-align:initial;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:initial;width:100%;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif">I am concerned at your tone Sacie. This is not my "take" and you CAN be sure that I am correct. Dollars are not a measure of energy use. And it would seem that on this list of all lists that environmental impact and energy not dollars would be what mattered. </div>
<div style="text-align:initial;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:initial;width:100%;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif">A lack of numeracy and basic science amongst most of the public is IMO a major obstacle to green building. Measuring energy with dollars is a classic example. </div>
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Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. <a href="tel:5197417920" value="+15197417920" target="_blank">5197417920</a> </div> <table style="border-spacing:0px" width="100%">
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<div><b>From: </b>Sacie Lambertson</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, May 22, 2013 20:23</div><div><div><div><b>To: </b>Green Building</div><div><b>Reply To: </b>Green Building</div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Greenbuilding] simple energy-less home</div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Interesting take John. While I'm sure you are correct, most people would not possibly understand any other measurement.<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Certainly though, point taken. The Kw used on our electrical bill is half the entire bill. And then one has to consider what the kw charge is in each area; we're quite high here out in the country where our coop buys from the big electrical makers.<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">And then some people do measure happiness in dollars (:<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Sacie<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:56 PM, John Straube <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jfstraube@uwaterloo.ca" target="_blank">jfstraube@uwaterloo.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div style="text-align:initial;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:initial;width:100%;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif">
Using dollars to measure energy is like measuring happiness with dollars. There is some correlation but quite limited. </div>
<div style="text-align:initial;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:initial;width:100%;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif">
I know of a cottage in Ontario that paid more then 30 per month while it's electrical system was torn out eg. it used zero power during that time. </div>
<div style="text-align:initial;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:initial;width:100%;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif">
Kwh or btu or even joules should be used for measuring energy use. </div>
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Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.</div>
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<div><b>From: </b>Reuben Deumling</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, May 22, 2013 18:21</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Green Building</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>Green Building</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Greenbuilding] simple energy-less home</div>
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<div>Cool. I'd like to see numbers, though. When you have PV on the roof, $240 doesn't mean that much (at least to me).
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My family's annual energy bills total $400 of which >half are fixed charges unrelated to usage and I have no PV.
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Sacie Lambertson <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:sacie.lambertson@gmail.com" target="_blank">sacie.lambertson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Very simply designed house in Maine uses little energy to operate:<br>
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<a href="http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/10895176/list?utm_source=Houzz&utm_campaign=u284&utm_medium=email&utm_content=gallery1" target="_blank">http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/10895176/list?utm_source=Houzz&utm_campaign=u284&utm_medium=email&utm_content=gallery1</a><br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Lots of readers' comments follow.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Sacie<br>
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