<html><head><base href="x-msg://1042/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">True, true; I've always felt that straw-bale was 3D stone soup.<br><div apple-content-edited="true">
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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Clarke Olsen<br><a href="http://clarkeolsendesign.com">clarkeolsendesign.com</a><br>373 route 203<br>Spencertown, NY 12165 <br>USA<br>518-392-4640<br>colsen@taconic.net<br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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<br><div><div>On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:19 AM, John Salmen wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I liked Ross’s post. In fact I thought it was an extremely well written, well informed critique – I read it twice admiring the writing. I especially liked the comment about bottles, pop cans and tires having risen above the garbage pile in terms of value (also my opinion on cellulose). I also appreciated the humour of the ‘magical effect’ comment as I think the peter pan syndrome has always been an aspect of the alternative building movement. I view that as an accurate critical observation not an opinion. There are a lot of mouldering piles of half completed earthships out there as a testament.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Greenbuilding] Earthship in New York<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Ross Elliott <<a href="mailto:relliott@homesol.ca" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">relliott@homesol.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Not to rain on your parade Genarro, but "Earthship" and "Passive House" are<br>rather contradictory terms, at least in New York's climate. The insulation<br>values needed to reach Passive House are a long way off from dirt packed<br>tires, and much as I admire what Mike Reynolds did in New Mexico with<br>materials that weren't being recycled back then, bottles, pop cans and tires<br>are no longer just garbage. It's a tremendous amount of work to build with<br>tires, some people I know of spent several years just getting the walls up<br>and then couldn't afford to complete the structure. Some are convinced the<br>thermal mass of Earthships have some magical effect on energy consumption,<br>and that over-glazed sloped south walls don't leak, overheat during the day<br>and lose heat excessively at night, despite evidence to the contrary. I've<br>been to Taos and stayed in an Earthship, and have read everything Mike<br>Reynolds wrote and watched all the videos, and I respect the creativity in<br>these homes which certainly should be part of any decent green building<br>project, but I hope that by investigating "Passive House concepts" you'll<br>discover the shortcomings of Earthships in a cold climate. Why not insulated<br>rammed earth, strawbale, or even super-insulated wood frame construction?<br><br>Solar thermal radiant is barely economically feasible (with a backup system)<br>with a certified Passive House in northern climates, so go with a cold<br>climate air source heat pump or geothermal, if those are your only choices<br>and you really want a tire house. But if you build a true Passive House, you<br>can heat with a much simpler, cheaper combo DHW system, cool with a ground<br>loop and night cooling bypass on your ERV and save a fortune on HVAC<br>installation costs. Plus you can add solar thermal to the mix if you like,<br>with an appreciable % of energy boost.<br><br>Ross Elliott LEED-AP, CPHC<br>Homesol Building Solutions Inc.<br>Almonte, ON<br> <br></div></div></div></div></div></span>__________________________________<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple">Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>