<div dir="ltr"><div><div>In an insulated wall, the temperature in the middle is halfway between the temperature on the inside and on the outside.<br></div>If you put insulation between an insulated chimney and a cavity wall (insulated or not), you have no way of predicting in perpetuity how thick the insulation in the wall will be. If the wall gets a retrofit with say 12" of insulation, and the chimney has 1", then the temperature 3" from the hot face will be 80% towards the hot face, and will ignite your wall.<br><br></div>If there is a 2" air space, convection allows heat to be transferred away from any hot spots in the chimney. If you have even just one really hot spot, the insulation will not allow the convection to happen.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Clarke Olsen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:colsen@fairpoint.net" target="_blank">colsen@fairpoint.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">What is the reason for not insulating that space? Why would vermiculite be a better conductor than air? <div>Does this apply to metal and masonry chimneys?<br><div>
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Clarke Olsen<br><a href="http://clarkeolsendesign.com" target="_blank">clarkeolsendesign.com</a><br>373 route 203<br>Spencertown, NY 12165 <br>USA<br><a href="tel:518-392-4640" value="+15183924640" target="_blank">518-392-4640</a><br><a href="mailto:colsen@taconic.net" target="_blank">colsen@taconic.net</a><br><br><br><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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<br><div><div>On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:14 AM, Norbert Senf <<a href="mailto:norbert.senf@gmail.com" target="_blank">norbert.senf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Under no circumstances should anything be put into the 2" air space that is specified around a UL/ULC listed factory chimney.<br><br></div>If you put vermiculite in there, you are voiding the UL listing of the chimney by virtue of not installing according to "manufacturers instructions". This creates liability for you.<br><br></div>This is a common misconception, and is the reason for the "attic radiation shield" required in attics, which are required to have a storm collar on them, specifically to prevent people from putting insulation into the 2" air space. Here in Canada, a radiation shield is also required around chimneys in chases, specifically to avoid this scenario.<br><br></div>This is not an issue in normal use. However, the ULC-621 listing means the chimney system (including the air space) has been tested to survive three 30 minute chimney fires at 2100F, without torching the adjacent walls. Put vermiculite into the air space, and the wall will burn. I have seen photos of where this has happened.<br><br></div>Norbert<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:43 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:conservationarchitect@rockbridge.net" target="_blank">conservationarchitect@rockbridge.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">Alan</font></div>
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<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">How tight were the openings into this
closed loop fireplace? This may be acceptable to my client.
</font><a href="mailto:.6ach@50pa" target="_blank"><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">.6ach@50pa</font></a><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">
is impressive with these handicaps. What would your recommendation for
interior cloths dryer be?</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">As an alternative to the insulated
chase, could you define a space up to a triple wall chimney that has the
specified clearance to combustible material filled with non combustible
insulation such as vermiculite. </font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">Thanks</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">Eli</font>
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