<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hi, guys--</div><div><br></div><div>It's good that we examine the health and environmental costs and benefits of our materials. The danger is that we may become personally tied to our particular choices such that we advocate for them by criticizing and belittling others who make different choices. That person becomes a bully who attempts to force his views through ad hominem arguments.</div><div><br></div><div>For me, polystyrene as a building material cannot be separated from polystyrene for consumer products like coffee cups. Polystyrene is one of the world's worst pollutants. Saying that our wall insulation EPS is not what's fouling the oceans, is avoiding looking at all the problems associated with polystyrene in general. Our use of it as a material supports the primary manufacturers, who will not be responsible for their impact on health and environment.</div><div><br></div><div>If you haven't yet read Alex Wilson's evaluation of polystyrene in EBN, it's online at <a href="http://buildinggreen.com">buildinggreen.com</a> as "Avoid Polystyrene Insulation."</div><div><br>Best, Mike O'Brien<div>Sent from my iPhone</div></div><div><br>On Dec 11, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Gennaro Brooks-Church - Eco Brooklyn <<a href="mailto:info@ecobrooklyn.com">info@ecobrooklyn.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">John: "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:15px"> In my case a foam brand is about 60 miles away "</span><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br></span></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:15px">I doubt that. If it is like most products on this planet, it's ingredients span across all continents: soy from Nebraska, ingredient A from China, Ingredient B from the Philippines, canisters from Mexicon etc. </span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:15px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:15px">This the argument for simple building materials. Less ingredients, less travel. Cob: hay and mud from next door. Now that's green.</span></font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature">Gennaro Brooks-Church<br>Director, Eco Brooklyn Inc.<br>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA<br><a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com" target="_blank">www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a><br>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231<br></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:19 AM, John Salmen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca" target="_blank">terrain@shaw.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">So if diverting energy from the food stream and the deforestation that results is unacceptable in the case of soy foams – why is diverting energy from the paper stream and subsequent deforestation of NA acceptable? The question is density and the amount of a virgin material used to get a result – and then the question becomes appropriate virgin material. I don’t like bringing food material into the building or waste stream but it may be better than producing synthetic material – I don’t know?. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">All insulations are simple – a material that is made to encapsulate air. . Cellulose or fibre material is odd because we are harvesting, processing and transporting a coarse material that either naturally encapsulates air or is made to do so rather than simply introducing air into a material in a geographically more local context – and most foams are produced close to the regions where they are marketed. In my case a foam brand is about 60 miles away whereas mineral wood is about 3000 miles.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Again not a defense of foam just trying to make sense of the discussion.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Greenbuilding [mailto:<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan Abrams<br><b>Sent:</b> December-11-14 3:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] embodied energy was Polyiso strength on roof (ErgoDesk)<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">and that 5% that is soy has the carbon of the fertilizer and fuel it took to grow, harvest, transport, and process it. I would not doubt that is a greater EE factor than pure plastic. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">not to mention, the diversion from feedstock. IOW's, how many more acres of Amazon forests does it take, to grow feedstock for raising cattle, because of the soy that was used for manufacturing insulation?<br><br>put another way, could you eat your insulation if you got hungry enough?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">AA<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#660000">Alan Abrams<b><br></b></span><i><span style="color:#666666">certified professional building designer, AIBD<br>certified passive house consultant, PHIUS</span></i><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#666666">certified passive house builder, PHIUS<br></span></i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#666666">cell <a href="tel:202-437-8583" value="+12024378583" target="_blank">202-437-8583</a><br><a href="mailto:alan@abramsdesignbuild.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#666666">alan@abramsdesignbuild.com</span></a><br></span><a href="http://www.heliconworks.com/index2.html" target="_blank">HELICON WORKS <i>Achitecture and Education</i></a><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 9:02 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church - Eco Brooklyn <<a href="mailto:info@ecobrooklyn.com" target="_blank">info@ecobrooklyn.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">They tell me it's made from soybeans and pop bottles so it must be good.<br>Ross Elliott <u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">A whopping 5% of the foam is soy. The other 95% is just like any two part foam. Last time I checked. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="color:#888888">-- </span></span><span style="color:#888888"><br><span>Gennaro Brooks-Church</span><br><span>Director, Eco Brooklyn Inc.</span><br><span>Cell: <a href="tel:1%20347%20244%203016" value="+13472443016" target="_blank">1 347 244 3016</a> USA</span><br><span><a href="http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com" target="_blank">www.EcoBrooklyn.com</a></span><br><span>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231</span><br><br></span><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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