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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>There could be another subset – ‘think they want to’ which could be the worst. I don’t really think the ‘gift economy’ can really be thought of as an economic thing. I live in a place where aspects of a longstanding gifting (potlatch) still exists. There is a big mind shift in this in that you have to think of the property or gift as something that doesn’t really exist as an object in itself with a pricetag (that is a market based economy that needs to create currency of things). In a gifting situation the object(s) are about the relationships and maintaining the relationship usually involves giving a gift back or simply maintaining a place in the community. In this way in the local indigenous community that surrounds me money earned by one family member is shared in very odd ways that are hard to comprehend.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>It gets very complex and lots of anthros have argued about how such cultures work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I think one of the closest concepts is the idea of being in service to your community (or something) and bringing certain skills to that that can be seen as adding something ‘extra’. The building trades in some ways are a remnant of this in that we still have a concept of a ‘quality job’ done by a ‘master craftsperson’ or a ‘custom’ job. In that way the ‘extra quality’ or attention provided by the ‘special skills’ becomes the gift. I don’t think this is effectively in practice anymore but the myth remains and everyone still likes to point out the ‘special’ attention details in their house received.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If the market economy has achieved anything it is probably the erosion of servitude and that is probably a good thing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>sanjay jain<br><b>Sent:</b> April-21-15 3:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Staggering 1/2 tonne per person per year cement production!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3199"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>> There are plenty of steady-state economic economists out there but our linear growth system doesn’t operate on that premise. All the green buildings in the world won’t save us from the inevitable limits we’re already up against. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4106"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4112"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks Dan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3454"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3482"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I had not heard of the term Steady State Economics - Found this: <a href="http://steadystate.org/" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3458">http://steadystate.org/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4069"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4070"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Will be reading more on this. I personally would love to see humanity move towards a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3966">Gift Economy,</a> where people provide goods and services to each other because they want to, not because they have to (or think they have to).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3686"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3483"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>~sanjay<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3374"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3373"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3820"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3819"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3818"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Antonioli Dan <<a href="mailto:solardan26@gmail.com">solardan26@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> sanjay jain <<a href="mailto:sanjayjainuk@yahoo.co.uk">sanjayjainuk@yahoo.co.uk</a>>; Green Building <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> "<a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:17 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Staggering 1/2 tonne per person per year cement production!</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3823"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv6843956032><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3822"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3821"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>There are plenty of steady-state economic economists out there but our linear growth system doesn’t operate on that premise. All the green buildings in the world won’t save us from the inevitable limits we’re already up against. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4099"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4101"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4100"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4176"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3824"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv6843956032yqt68050><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_4172"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On Apr 19, 2015, at 8:28 AM, sanjay jain <<a href="mailto:sanjayjainuk@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">sanjayjainuk@yahoo.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3826"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429654074339_3825"><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3806"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>> can ( & will!!) add up to tipping the scales, if we just<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3836"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>> keep at it for the next few centuries.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3807"><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3875"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_6711"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Even under the most optimistic climate models we don't have 1 century let alone a few. Technology is neither the problem or the solution to our current woes. Economics and culture are.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_6740"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_6741"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I recently attended Brooking's "<a href="http://connect.brookings.edu/register-to-attend-achieving-economic-growth" target="_blank" id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_6916">Achieving strong economic growth</a>" there were a lot of smart people, not one asked why we need perpetual economic growth. The underlying assumption is that we need more and more goods and services to be happy.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_6990"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_7049"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>We keep innovating to produce more and more food, saying that the poor are hungry, but there are now more obese people on the planet than hungry ones. The issue is distribution. Not to mention that 65 billion (10 billion in the US) land animals are tortured in factory farms each year... <a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2015/4/7/cowspiracy_as_california_faces_drought_film" target="_blank" id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_7532">35% water use in California</a> is for animal agriculture.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_7175"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_7174"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I encourage folks on this list to promote "think green" as well as "buy green". <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_7590"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_7095"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>~sanjay<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3950"><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3949"><div id="yiv6843956032yui_3_16_0_1_1429455819698_3948"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Frank Tettemer <<a href="mailto:frank@livingsol.com" target="_blank">frank@livingsol.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 16, 2015 4:06 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Staggering 1/2 tonne per person per year cement production!</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Getting back to the cement, it is simply staggering. It makes our <br>individual efforts seem pointless.<br><br>/Could someone tell me who I need to contact to get my 1/2 tonne of <br>cement? :)/<br><br>~sanjay<br><br>I don't know, either san jay, to whom we must request, in order to <br>receive our own half ton.<br><br>But I do know that the efforts are, and have been, point-full. These <br>steady small developments,( in lightening the load on the Planet, in <br>attempting the Living Building Challenge, in becoming responsible for <br>your own energy production, repair, and consumption, ) can ( & will!!) <br>add up to tipping the scales, if we just keep at it for the next few <br>centuries.<br><br>Think back, how 20-30 years ago, solar energy had such a lethargy of <br>marketing and slow sales, and high expense. Yet now, the accumulated <br>efforts, of proponents of solar energy as a viable alternative, are now <br>being viewed as credible. Many people have kept at it, year after year, <br>until the scales have been tipped, and we'll get to see more and more <br>villages becoming electrically self sufficient, like in Europe.<br><br>I just really would like to view all our green building, natural <br>building, efforts as that of the-glass-half-full;<br>quite point-full, well developed thinking, over the past three decades, <br>and frankly, quite expectant of positive changes,;<br>rather than to consider our efforts as the-glass-half-empty, as being <br>point-less.<br><br>Opti-Mist-Me,<br><br>-- <br>Frank Tettemer<br>Living Sol ~ Building and Design<br><a href="http://www.livingsol.com/" target="_blank">www.livingsol.com</a><br>613 756 3884<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>