<div dir="ltr">this may be self evident, but with regard to loading up the interior of a building with desiccant material--let's call it hygromass--unless the envelope and mechanical system are capable of redesiccating during dry periods, problems can result. things can cycle from wet to dry for years before a slowly accumulating moisture content can hit the point of sustaining mold, so there is the potential for a stealthy failure. a WUFI analysis, run out for, say, ten years, can predict such outcomes.<div><br></div><div>-aa </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,0,0)">Alan Abrams</span></font><b style="color:rgb(102,0,0)"><br></b><i><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">certified professional building designer, AIBD<br>certified passive house consultant, PHIUS</span></i></font><div><i><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">certified passive house builder, PHIUS</span></i><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,0,0)"><font color="#666666"><i><br></i></font></span></font><font style="color:rgb(102,102,102)" size="1"><font size="2">cell </font></font><font style="color:rgb(102,102,102)" size="1"><font size="2">202-437-8583</font></font><font style="color:rgb(102,102,102)" size="1"><font size="2"><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,102,102)" href="mailto:alan@abramsdesignbuild.com" target="_blank">alan@abramsdesignbuild.com</a><br style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"></font></font><a href="http://www.heliconworks.com/index2.html" target="_blank">HELICON WORKS <i>Achitecture and Education</i></a></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 1:10 PM, John Salmen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca" target="_blank">terrain@shaw.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Sorry I didn’t see the video but wouldn’t zeolites (volcanic rock dessicant) be more effective than any source of carbon. It is a pretty common dessicant and pretty cheap – works by storing water to a saturation or equilibrium – so when the humidity level drops the zeolite will cycle and release moisture to about 80% of its dry weight – so a 100 lbs will hold about 12 gallons of water.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Not sure what kind of moisture you need to pull out but if its about 12 gallons a day you would need about 10,000 lbs or about 7 cubic yards – would definitely fill a crawlspace – but then you have to draw your air through the crawlspace.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I could imagine making an air filter using a buried concrete or poly tank. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Greenbuilding [mailto:<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>conservation architect<br><b>Sent:</b> July-03-15 7:15 AM<span class=""><br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Fw: Biochar as Annual Cycle Building Dehumidifier<u></u><u></u></span></span></p></div></div><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Many of us living on the East side of the Mississippi River, have high humidity in summer and low humidity in winter inside our homes when heated. The relative humidity can be high in the winter outside. However, by heating the cold air, it becomes very dry inside. In the summer, the common practice is to cool with refrigerant driven air conditioner. Never mind that all the refrigerant will leak when the seals break. We do not have air conditioning. In mountains of Virginia, we are able to keep the house in 70sF all summer with night flushing and closing up during the day with HRV running. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Setting aside the issue of biochar, let me speak of increasing the desiccant capacity of the house similar to the what was described in video referenced below. I have observed that our house has an annual cycle of humidity. After heating through the winter, the house is very dry. In the spring as the humidity begins to rise, past the heating season, the house will act as a desiccant and dehumidify the air coming in by aDsorbing the humidity. As summer and early fall, continually adds moisture, the capacity to aDsorb humidity out of the air becomes saturated. By late summer and early fall, without active dehumidification, the house will have it’s highest humidity. Then when heating season starts again, the heat will begin to dry out the aDsorbed humidity. In the gradation from being too high, to too low RH, there will be a time where humidity released by drying will be a beneficial humidifying of the air, just as late spring, early summer the house’s dehumidifying affect is a benefit. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">For the past 3 years, I have been reducing the humidity in my house in the summer by temporarily heating to 100F+ temperature for a few hours. Living near a creek may be raising my ambient humidity above normal. However, when I have done that with a wood stove, I am able to cool house again by the following morning with RH reduced by 15%. Because initially, my wife did not want me to do this, I waited until it was 90%RH in late August. This brought it down to a still too high, 75%RH. On a slightly cool day, I got permission to do a smaller fire to get RH to 65%. The second year, I pointed to the mold forming to convince here it was a problem, also in August. Similar results to first year. This year, I convinced my wife to proactively dehumidify by drying the house when I first saw it get to 80%RH temporarily. I did this last week to get down to 64%RH. Also, on select days where RH is in 50s%, I ventilate the house with fans. I was able to reduce by 5% the last time this way. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Now if you could increase the desiccant capacity such that describe in video, we can lower the peaks of dry and wet to achieve desirable levels of humidity without the use of refrigerants. This assumes you can maintain a suitable temperature by other means. Now if people use biochar as the desiccant, they can prevent the readmission of half the carbon contained in the wood it was created from for millennias. In addition to sequestering the carbon from wood, it also reduces the carbon from manufacturing and running refrigerant equipment to dehumidify. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">This video about charcoal in Japan shows its use as an annual cycle dehumidifier in a home. The relevant part of 28 minute video for this aspect comes at 21:28. Any thoughts? 4,500 kilograms of charcoal were laid in what looked like a crawl space to absorb humidity during the summer and give off humidity in the winter. Much information was not included, like climate, size of house, thermal envelope construction, ventilation, et. However, this application of a desiccant is relevant to our core subject of greenbuilding. Does anybody on list have experience using enough desiccant to absorb humidity in summer and release back in the winter inside a thermal envelope? </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8" title="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Eli <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com" title="9watts@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Reuben Deumling</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:59 PM</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">To:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org" title="greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Green Building</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Re: [Greenbuilding] Fw: Biochar as Annual Cycle BuildingDehumidifier</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Does anybody on list have experience using enough desiccant to absorb humidity in summer and release back in the winter inside a thermal envelope? <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Some of us live in climates with low humidity in the summer and very high humidity in the winter. I'm thinking this would not work for us, eh?<br> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Greenbuilding mailing list<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>