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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Setting aside the issue of what kind of desiccant we use, I would like well
reasoned feedback on the concept of an annual cycle desiccant capacity in a
building to offset the peak and valley of wet and dry in a house to achieve a
desirable range through out the year. Except for that video describing the
many uses of charcoal in Japan, I do not know of other examples using this
concept. A few years ago, I experimented with bentonite clay in an attempt
to absorb humidity on a daily cycle. I found the rate of adsorption was
way to slow to be affective. The material was so dusty, I did not have a
vision of how to actively circulate air through it with out mixing with the
air. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The relevant part of 28 minute video for this aspect comes at 21:28</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><A
title=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8
style='href: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8"'
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8"><SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8</FONT></SPAN></A> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "></SPAN> </DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=terrain@shaw.ca
href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca">John Salmen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 03, 2015 1:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Green Building'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Fw: Biochar as Annual CycleBuilding
Dehumidifier</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Sorry
I didn’t see the video but wouldn’t zeolites (volcanic rock dessicant) be more
effective than any source of carbon. It is a pretty common dessicant and pretty
cheap – works by storing water to a saturation or equilibrium – so when the
humidity level drops the zeolite will cycle and release moisture to about 80% of
its dry weight – so a 100 lbs will hold about 12 gallons of
water.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Not
sure what kind of moisture you need to pull out but if its about 12 gallons a
day you would need about 10,000 lbs or about 7 cubic yards – would definitely
fill a crawlspace – but then you have to draw your air through the
crawlspace.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>I
could imagine making an air filter using a buried concrete or poly tank.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
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style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
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style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>conservation architect<BR><B>Sent:</B> July-03-15 7:15
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Green Building<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] Fw:
Biochar as Annual Cycle Building Dehumidifier<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Many of us living on the
East side of the Mississippi River, have high humidity in summer and low
humidity in winter inside our homes when heated. The relative humidity can
be high in the winter outside. However, by heating the cold air, it
becomes very dry inside. In the summer, the common practice is to cool
with refrigerant driven air conditioner. Never mind that all the
refrigerant will leak when the seals break. We do not have air
conditioning. In mountains of Virginia, we are able to keep the house in
70sF all summer with night flushing and closing up during the day with HRV
running. </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Setting aside the issue
of biochar, let me speak of increasing the desiccant capacity of the house
similar to the what was described in video referenced below. I have
observed that our house has an annual cycle of humidity. After heating
through the winter, the house is very dry. In the spring as the humidity
begins to rise, past the heating season, the house will act as a desiccant and
dehumidify the air coming in by aDsorbing the humidity. As summer
and early fall, continually adds moisture, the capacity to aDsorb humidity out
of the air becomes saturated. By late summer and early fall, without
active dehumidification, the house will have it’s highest humidity. Then
when heating season starts again, the heat will begin to dry out the aDsorbed
humidity. In the gradation from being too high, to too low RH, there will
be a time where humidity released by drying will be a beneficial humidifying of
the air, just as late spring, early summer the house’s dehumidifying affect is a
benefit. </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>For the past 3 years, I
have been reducing the humidity in my house in the summer by temporarily heating
to 100F+ temperature for a few hours. Living near a creek may be raising
my ambient humidity above normal. However, when I have done that with a
wood stove, I am able to cool house again by the following morning with RH
reduced by 15%. Because initially, my wife did not want me to do this, I
waited until it was 90%RH in late August. This brought it down to a still
too high, 75%RH. On a slightly cool day, I got permission to do a smaller
fire to get RH to 65%. The second year, I pointed to the mold forming to
convince here it was a problem, also in August. Similar results to first
year. This year, I convinced my wife to proactively dehumidify by drying
the house when I first saw it get to 80%RH temporarily. I did this last
week to get down to 64%RH. Also, on select days where RH is in 50s%, I
ventilate the house with fans. I was able to reduce by 5% the last time
this way. </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Now if you could
increase the desiccant capacity such that describe in video, we can lower the
peaks of dry and wet to achieve desirable levels of humidity without the use of
refrigerants. This assumes you can maintain a suitable temperature by
other means. Now if people use biochar as the desiccant, they can prevent
the readmission of half the carbon contained in the wood it was created from for
millennias. In addition to sequestering the carbon from wood, it also
reduces the carbon from manufacturing and running refrigerant equipment to
dehumidify. </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>This video about
charcoal in Japan shows its use as an annual cycle dehumidifier in a home.
The relevant part of 28 minute video for this aspect comes at 21:28. Any
thoughts? 4,500 kilograms of charcoal were laid in what looked like a crawl
space to absorb humidity during the summer and give off humidity in the
winter. Much information was not included, like climate, size of house,
thermal envelope construction, ventilation, et. However, this application
of a desiccant is relevant to our core subject of greenbuilding.
Does anybody on list have experience using enough desiccant to absorb humidity
in summer and release back in the winter inside a thermal envelope? </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><A
title=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiVmKC8xXJ8</SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Eli
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><A
title=9watts@gmail.com href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Reuben Deumling</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> Sunday, June 28, 2015
8:59 PM</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><A
title=greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Green Building</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> Re: [Greenbuilding]
Fw: Biochar as Annual Cycle BuildingDehumidifier</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Does anybody on list
have experience using enough desiccant to absorb humidity in summer and
release back in the winter inside a thermal envelope?
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Some of us live in
climates with low humidity in the summer and very high humidity in the winter.
I'm thinking this would not work for us,
eh?<BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
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